[68vette]

Originally Posted by jackmccullough

I don't knwoo what housing costs are like in Arizona, but I know that for all the years we've lived here, whenever we mention the cost of housing to our relatives in the New Jersey and DC area they laugh at us.

Very true. I run across the same with family in CT, but the bottom line is they laugh even harder when they find out what incomes in Vermont are as well. Typically the people from lower New England or the tri-state area talk about how affordable Vermont is. If your income is generated in the state, it's not so great for most people here. I make a very respectable income, but I also have a hard time sitting by watching towns and the state increase taxes year after year. About 50% of our state population does not even make a livable wage and it keeps getting worse. As a citizen, we are expected to be fically responsible.
Colchester just did a property revaluation and some people are really getting the shaft. Our local paper, The Colchester Sun, ran a story on how some peoples property taxes were about to double or triple. One example was a woman whose taxes were almost $5000/yr were about to go over $12,000/yr. Even by disputing the revaluation, she stated she needed her taxes to be no higher than $6000 or she would lose everything. In another case a gentleman said his home was assessed at $180,000 and now the town is saying the home is now worth close to $700,000. In my eyes this is criminal, especially in these tough economic times. I'm sure many of these folks will get a reduced bill, but they are still going to pay a much larger bill. I am sorry for hijacking the thread, but after just reading the article I was furious.

[quickdraw]

Originally Posted by jackmccullough

I don't knwoo what housing costs are like in Arizona, but I know that for all the years we've lived here, whenever we mention the cost of housing to our relatives in the New Jersey and DC area they laugh at us. I guess your frame of reference is important when trying to figure out whether something is expensive or cheap.

Do you tell them that managers here are often making 35k to 40k? And a ton of people are making 25k to 30k.
Yeah the houses and taxes don't seem that expensive, until you try to pay for them on a Vermonters salary.

I've lived in suburban NY and Chicago for most of my life. After the salary is considered, the cost of living (in Chiitenden County anyway), is about the same as those places.

[jackmccullough]

Originally Posted by 68vette

Very true. I run across the same with family in CT, but the bottom line is they laugh even harder when they find out what incomes in Vermont are as well. Typically the people from lower New England or the tri-state area talk about how affordable Vermont is. If your income is generated in the state, it's not so great for most people here. I make a very respectable income, but I also have a hard time sitting by watching towns and the state increase taxes year after year. About 50% of our state population does not even make a livable wage and it keeps getting worse. As a citizen, we are expected to be fically responsible.
Colchester just did a property revaluation and some people are really getting the shaft. Our local paper, The Colchester Sun, ran a story on how some peoples property taxes were about to double or triple. One example was a woman whose taxes were almost $5000/yr were about to go over $12,000/yr. Even by disputing the revaluation, she stated she needed her taxes to be no higher than $6000 or she would lose everything. In another case a gentleman said his home was assessed at $180,000 and now the town is saying the home is now worth close to $700,000. In my eyes this is criminal, especially in these tough economic times. I'm sure many of these folks will get a reduced bill, but they are still going to pay a much larger bill. I am sorry for hijacking the thread, but after just reading the article I was furious.

You've touched on a point that is sensitive for a lot of people. Every time a town does a town wide reappraisal the residents find that some of them get very large increases, while others get smaller increases or even, more rarely, decreases.

Naturally it's only the people who got the increases, especially big increases, who complain. In reality, though, it's likely that those people were getting a break for a number of years by paying taxes on an artificially low assessment. They may think their tax bill was high before, but if their house was assessed below fair market value they were undertaxed.

I serve on my town's board of civil authority, and when we did a town wide reappraisal last year we had over fifty appeals, all of which involved a hearing before the board, a site visit by a three-member committee, a written report, and a final hearing before the board. It's a lot of work for the volunteer members of the board, and we do it gladly. We often hear complaints about the siae of the increase or the amount of their tax bill, but those issues are entirely irrelevant to any question in an assessment appeal.

Finally, when people complain that reappraisals make their taxes go up they are not really correct. The taxes raised by a town are based on the budget adopted by the voters of the town. The townwide reappraisal doesn't change the amount of money the town has to collect in taxes: the total tax receipts will be the same, but there will be some change in how those taxes are distributed. If your property value went up exactly the same as the average in your town, your taxes will stay the same. If your assessment went up more than the average your taxes will go up; and if your assessment went up by less than the average your taxes will go down.

And then there's income sensitivity, but that would really be a threadjack if we got into that.

[quickdraw]

Originally Posted by jackmccullough

Naturally it's only the people who got the increases, especially big increases, who complain.

I complained and won. Sometimes the towns don't do their homework or hope people will just pay what they're told to pay. I live on ten acres and got walloped for owning a bunch of land. However, my land is straight up the back of a mountain and not land that can be resold like other lots in town. Not only that, my land twists and turns through my neighbor's property. Steep with ledges. When all of us on the mountain complained, our appraisals were knocked down from 40k to 100k.

I wonder if the town tried to see if other people with less valuable land were appraised artificially high. I pretty much doubt it.

[andromeda_k]

I have a whole year to research before we move, so this is literally the FIRST step to finding the perfect place, so don't worry about me being so stupid as to rent a place sight unseen in a state I've never been to. I'm just sort of putting feelers out for all possible places. As far as weather goes, I have lived in North and South AZ, Chicago, Miami FL, Maryland, California, Oregon and Buenos Aires, also spent a few months in Ireland. My point is, weather does not affect me. I don't care much if a place is hot, humid, freezing, or anything in between. I am one of those people who doesn't pay much attention to it; I might complain about the heat in AZ, but I complained about the cold in Chicago and the humidity in Miami. Everywhere has bad weather, at least part of the year. I just try to dress accordingly.
As far as price range, we'd want to be able to rent a 1 bedroom for $650 a month or less, sorry I wasn't more detailed there, I sort of just threw the question out there.
Also, we were already looking at N Carolina, at least it was on our list. We're leaning more toward Washington state right now. The main things we're trying to avoid are overly conservative places and the Midwest, because since I saw twister as a kid I've been really terrified of tornados.
Still, even with whatever can be said about Vermont, I have a feeling it's a great place to live. Maybe not the right place for us, but if nothing else I plan on visiting!

[VT773]

Originally Posted by vtvette

You really have to love Vermont to make it work.

Or at least be here for so many generations that it seems normal !

Using Google earth is tough, the view from 15 miles is always so much better than up close and real. THink of Vermont as that girl you meet in the bar after about 10 cocktails. Fun, cute exciting.... then the next day....

Honestly, I grew up here, as did about 5 generations of my family. I have roots going back to the first explorers in VT. Sheer stupidity may be the reason I am here, but the winters are brutal. I ski, snowshow, etc etc and love all that but around Feb I am ready to murder. The winters are long long long. I know there are places much much worse but it just seems that the grey washed out nothingness of winter and spring is a killer. It starts around Halloween when the leaves have dropped and carries on through Early May. The mud and dreariness of spring is only barely mitigated by the promise of an explosion of green in late May-June.

Socially Vermont is fairly accepting to a point. Move to a small town and you will see what i mean. Small towns are the most picturesque and liveable, however small town politics can drive you insane. Live here 30-40 years and just maybe you will wear off the "Flat-Lander" moniker.

Burlington is our only quasi-city and ask most vermonters and they will tell you Burlington and Chittenden county are also the most Un-Vermont like areas of the state. But it is also one of the few areas with some level of opportunity.

[Evan_Lanctot]

Yes. Next question!

[GregW]

OP - Before you decide on Vermont, Maine, Upstate NY or New Hampshire schedule a ski trip in mid January. Forget the skiing but rent a car and drive around. Hopefully there will be at least one decent snowstorm during your visit. Northern New England is beautiful in the summer and glorious in the Fall but between December and March it will test you. The snow, ice and cold are an aquired taste.

[VTtoPA]

Originally Posted by andromeda_k

I have a whole year to research before we move, so this is literally the FIRST step to finding the perfect place, so don't worry about me being so stupid as to rent a place sight unseen in a state I've never been to. I'm just sort of putting feelers out for all possible places. As far as weather goes, I have lived in North and South AZ, Chicago, Miami FL, Maryland, California, Oregon and Buenos Aires, also spent a few months in Ireland. My point is, weather does not affect me. I don't care much if a place is hot, humid, freezing, or anything in between. I am one of those people who doesn't pay much attention to it; I might complain about the heat in AZ, but I complained about the cold in Chicago and the humidity in Miami. Everywhere has bad weather, at least part of the year. I just try to dress accordingly.
As far as price range, we'd want to be able to rent a 1 bedroom for $650 a month or less, sorry I wasn't more detailed there, I sort of just threw the question out there.
Also, we were already looking at N Carolina, at least it was on our list. We're leaning more toward Washington state right now. The main things we're trying to avoid are overly conservative places and the Midwest, because since I saw twister as a kid I've been really terrified of tornados.
Still, even with whatever can be said about Vermont, I have a feeling it's a great place to live. Maybe not the right place for us, but if nothing else I plan on visiting!

You would NEVER find a place for $650 or less around here. Considering there is about 1-2% of rentals actually vacant here (lowest in nation I believe) and there isn't much around to rent. I would expect to pay $900 at the LEAST but around $1200 normally. Just visit but be prepared to drop more than $650 on your stay here.

[NrthernNewEnglandVillages]

If you want a detailed analysis in the cost-of-living in Vermont, check out this calculator which will break down the results by item: Cost-of-Living Calculator | Northern New England Villages