01-26-2007, 07:26 PM
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My family and I are thinking of relocating and I'd love to hear opinions about great VT towns in which to live and raise a family. Our criteria is someplace safe, good public schools, and affordable ( i.e. house for under$230,000). Ideally someplace smaller than 60,000 would be good, though not completely necessary, with some kind of access to arts and culture, even if it's a couple towns away. We've ruled out Burlington for a crime issue we discovered, same with Middlebury and Brattleboro. Any other recommended towns?
Any suggestions would be appreciated. We're also considering New Hampshire, Conn., Rhode Island, and upstate New York. Actually anywhere in the country would work but low crime, good schools, and affordability are the must-haves.
Thanks!
01-26-2007, 07:56 PM
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Nothing in Vermont is "affordable." No place on earth is free from crime since Vlad the Impaler died. Now that those issues are out of the way, Waterbury is centrally located and a nice place. Swanton is a stone's throw from Montreal and an international culture.
If you are willing to get out of the area, Athens Alabama has nationally high school test scores, a quiet safe environment, a super low cost of living, and a surprising number of people working in high-tech jobs in or near Huntsville.
01-27-2007, 12:20 AM
Location: hinesburg, vt
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All cities in Vermont are under 60k in population. The outlying towns of Burlington in Chittenden county are rural, but housing is very expensive. If you live further out you will have to live with high transportation costs as our gasoline is higher here in VT. Don't plan on buying a new diesel car as VT is one of six states that will not let you register it. In today's paper an absurd notion was presented to increase the gas tax by .50 the logic being that people will then live in town and not drive as much. I always hear of mass transit options being proposed, but due to our geography and the fact that many folks work odd jobs and hours this will never work. It is this kind of talk which is forcing more folks to rethink their futures here. It's too bad since VT is really a nice place to live.
01-27-2007, 08:21 AM
Location: Vermont
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Why did you rule out Brattleboro? The wording on your post suggested that Brattleboro had a such a serious crime problem that you would rule it out as a place to live. From what I have been told, Brattleboro has a very low crime rate. Yes, Bulington recently had a nationally publicized murder, but a realtor in Brattleboro said that murders are very rare in Brattleboro, so rare that if one happened, it would be first page news every day until the perp was put away. I did hear of a local robbery or two, though.
01-27-2007, 08:27 AM
Location: Vermont
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I'm curious as to why you ruled out Middlebury as well. Crime? Pretty much non-existant except for domestic violence, which is a pretty big issue here in Vermont. Also, there is a college there, so you read of the occasional theft from a dorm room here and there. I live between Middlebury & Burlington and know quite a lot about both towns.
I would suggest you look at the areas surrounding Lyndonville & St. Johnsbury as well as the towns themselves. Population of both towns and surrounding areas is probably around 15,000-20,000. Both towns have GREAT schools (at the high school level anyway) and housing is relatively inexpensive compared to the rest of the state.
St. Johnsbury is home to St. Johnsbury Academy & Catamount Arts which offer lots of art/music/theater etc and Lyndonville has Lyndon State College.
BUT....what about work?
check out the local newspaper:
www.caledonianrecord.com
01-27-2007, 05:01 PM
Location: hinesburg, vt
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The rate of crime in Vt compared to other places is very low. Murders almost always involve the victim knowing the assailant, so even if you read of a few in a given area that does not mean there is a threat to the population at large. One of the most shocking murders involved those two teenagers from the Norwich area who crossed over to NH and killed the two Dartmouth professors. Robbery was the motive and of course quite a bit of mental instability. They almost killed a homeowner in Vt, but when one of them knocked on his door acting creepy the man had a handgun which was visible and it thwarted the robbery and possible murder. Vermont does have a disturbing trend toward extreme leniency toward sex offenders (and other felons) and this will in the future create a problem. Gas station/mini-mart robberies are becoming much more commonplace which almost exclusively involves drug addicts. There have been two in my area in just the past few days.
01-28-2007, 09:21 AM
Location: ♥State of the heart♥
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Check out the towns around Stowe (which itself might be too pricey) - Morristown, Waterbury, Cambridge, Johnson (which is on the other side of Mt. Mansfield. The location keeps the prices low).
01-28-2007, 04:59 PM
Location: Apex, NC
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Quote:
Originally Posted by
karelise
Any suggestions would be appreciated. We're also considering New Hampshire, Conn., Rhode Island, and upstate New York. Actually anywhere in the country would work but low crime, good schools, and affordability are the must-haves.
You don't pick Vermont for it's affordability. You pick Vermont for it's character and how well it's environmental practices matches yours. One issue to note is that as your income and assests increase, Vermont becomes one of the least affordable places to live. $230,000 for a house doesn't go as far as you think it should in such a rural state, primarily because you have affluent folks from metros visiting Vermont as tourists and then falling in love with the natural beauty and buying a second home.
I grew up in Burlington and it's a great city. I lived in Orwell, VT for six years on my in-laws' farm and it was a picturesque little town with a great sense of community. It had a great little elementary school but the county high school was of grave concern for us. I mean no disrespect to the Vermonters on this forum, but since you're asking about other possibilities, I'd like to suggest you check out the Roanoke Valley in Virginia:
http://encyclopedia.quickseek.com/images/Roanokeaerial.jpg (broken link)
I live 20 minutes south of Roanoke in Franklin County. For those familiar with the beautiful Green Mountains of Vermont, let me introduce you to Cahas Mountain:
http://www.oakhillstablesva.com/images/photo_cahas.jpg (broken link)
Cahas Mountain (3,571') in Virginia is on the very same mountain range as the Green Mountains of Vermont (Appalachian). Folks in the Champlain Valley might actually be struck by the familiarity of Cahas even though it's about 700 miles further south. Anyway this is the view that I wake up to each day and it makes this Vermonter feel right at home.
We moved down to Boones Mill, Franklin County, VA in 2005. Insofar as cost of living is concerned, day to day living costs are 20% cheaper to live down here, at least. Add to that the fact that people tend to get paid abuot 20% more down here and it's really a stark economic contrast. Property tax in my county is only $0.52/$100. If memory serves most places in Vermont are up around $1.80/$100. When family visits our farm in Virginia from Vermont they never fail to notice how much cheaper fuel is down here (usually by about $0.18/gallon). Heating and cooling bills are much lower down here and electricity is much, much cheaper. Our county has a fantastic public school system. We have countless mountains, dozens of state and national parks, the blue ridge parkway, right next door. Roanoke Valley population is spread out over four counties and the MSA includes about 240,000 people. Our county is a very large county by area, +/- 750 square miles and the population is only 51,000. And we have gorgeous Smith Mountain Lake and Fairystone Lake, they are 30 and 45 minutes away respectively.
Roanoke City itself is quite liberal while the surrounding counties are conservative. Still, I'm a damn yankee, and to make matters worse, I'm a fiscal conservative social progressive athiest, so you'd think they'd shoot me down here! Surprisingly, virtually everyone I come into contact with down here is obscenely nice to me, and I to them. It's quite inspiring, really. You're treated like kin in awfully short order.
A considerable factor for our selection of this area beyond the obvious economic and recreational benefits are climate. Down here, you have a Spring full of flowers and green grass, instead of the mud season I grew up with
Spring lasts for months, Summer lasts for months, Autumn lasts for months down here and Winter rarely has a day that doesn't get above 32F. In Vermont, winter seemed to kick in around October 1st and hang around until April 1st. Which, if you ski every weekend, is a damn good thing! For us, not so much. Here, it snows, the kids spend all morning on sleds, and by breakfast the next day the snow is gone.
Still, Vermont is unparalleled when it comes to natural mountain beauty in the USA. Primarily because of the very political measures that impede the economy (no billboards allowed, very very difficult to overcome zoning requirements for development, etc). If you want a beautiful natural setting and are willing to make real economic sacrifices, Vermont is hard to beat.
Sean
01-28-2007, 07:49 PM
Location: Vermont / NEK
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What a great post! Pic #2 looks like anywhere, VT and Roanoke doesn't look too shabby either.
01-29-2007, 10:34 AM
Location: hinesburg, vt
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Sean, another outstanding post. Thanks for your post on the Va forum clarrifying some of the economic and tax comparisons. The area does look like Vt. For those reading the Vt forum, Sean was right in describing Vt. It is a very nice place to live if you can appreciate winter and deal with mud season. The reality is that the state will probably never get its fiscal priorities in order and this is plainly evident if you follow the actions of the legislature. We lose much of our young talent and for those saving for and planning for their retirement years the prospect of life here is stressful. I am amazed at how many life long Vermonters are taking the steps to research other locations to move to. Most candidly admit that they don't have faith that the state government will change and by leaving they are essentially voting with their feet giving the legislature a vote of no confidence. Having only lived here for two years I have to admit that I am starting a Plan B option. I have a few commitments which ideally require me to remain for four more years and by then if there is no positive action I will at least be prepared. For those who are looking to move to Vt I don't want to create an atmosphere of gloom, but it is always best to know the facts and then decide.
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Median household income ($) - Black or African American
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Occupied housing units (%)
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1996 Presidential Elections Results (%) - Democratic Party (Clinton)
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1996 Presidential Elections Results (%) - Other
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Urban houses (%)
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Mortgage status - with mortgage (%)
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Average family size
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Geographical mobility - Same house 1 year ago (%)
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Housing units in structures - 50 or more (%)
Housing units in structures - Mobile home (%)
Housing units in structures - Boat, RV, van, etc. (%)
House/condo owner moved in on average (years ago)
Renter moved in on average (years ago)
Year householder moved into unit - Moved in 1999 to March 2000 (%)
Year householder moved into unit - Moved in 1995 to 1998 (%)
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Means of transportation to work - Drove car alone (%)
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Working at home (%)
Industry diversity
Most Common Industries - Agriculture, forestry, fishing and hunting, and mining (%)
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Occupation diversity
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Most Common Occupations - Construction and extraction occupations (%)
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Most Common Occupations - Production, transportation, and material moving occupations (%)
Most Common Occupations - Production occupations (%)
Most Common Occupations - Transportation occupations (%)
Most Common Occupations - Material moving occupations (%)
People in Group quarters - Institutionalized population (%)
People in Group quarters - Correctional institutions (%)
People in Group quarters - Federal prisons and detention centers (%)
People in Group quarters - Halfway houses (%)
People in Group quarters - Local jails and other confinement facilities (including police lockups) (%)
People in Group quarters - Military disciplinary barracks (%)
People in Group quarters - State prisons (%)
People in Group quarters - Other types of correctional institutions (%)
People in Group quarters - Nursing homes (%)
People in Group quarters - Hospitals/wards, hospices, and schools for the handicapped (%)
People in Group quarters - Hospitals/wards and hospices for chronically ill (%)
People in Group quarters - Hospices or homes for chronically ill (%)
People in Group quarters - Military hospitals or wards for chronically ill (%)
People in Group quarters - Other hospitals or wards for chronically ill (%)
People in Group quarters - Hospitals or wards for drug/alcohol abuse (%)
People in Group quarters - Mental (Psychiatric) hospitals or wards (%)
People in Group quarters - Schools, hospitals, or wards for the mentally retarded (%)
People in Group quarters - Schools, hospitals, or wards for the physically handicapped (%)
People in Group quarters - Institutions for the deaf (%)
People in Group quarters - Institutions for the blind (%)
People in Group quarters - Orthopedic wards and institutions for the physically handicapped (%)
People in Group quarters - Wards in general hospitals for patients who have no usual home elsewhere (%)
People in Group quarters - Wards in military hospitals for patients who have no usual home elsewhere (%)
People in Group quarters - Juvenile institutions (%)
People in Group quarters - Long-term care (%)
People in Group quarters - Homes for abused, dependent, and neglected children (%)
People in Group quarters - Residential treatment centers for emotionally disturbed children (%)
People in Group quarters - Training schools for juvenile delinquents (%)
People in Group quarters - Short-term care, detention or diagnostic centers for delinquent children (%)
People in Group quarters - Type of juvenile institution unknown (%)
People in Group quarters - Noninstitutionalized population (%)
People in Group quarters - College dormitories (includes college quarters off campus) (%)
People in Group quarters - Military quarters (%)
People in Group quarters - On base (%)
People in Group quarters - Barracks, unaccompanied personnel housing (UPH), (Enlisted/Officer), ;and similar group living quarters for military personnel (%)
People in Group quarters - Transient quarters for temporary residents (%)
People in Group quarters - Military ships (%)
People in Group quarters - Group homes (%)
People in Group quarters - Homes or halfway houses for drug/alcohol abuse (%)
People in Group quarters - Homes for the mentally ill (%)
People in Group quarters - Homes for the mentally retarded (%)
People in Group quarters - Homes for the physically handicapped (%)
People in Group quarters - Other group homes (%)
People in Group quarters - Religious group quarters (%)
People in Group quarters - Dormitories (%)
People in Group quarters - Agriculture workers' dormitories on farms (%)
People in Group quarters - Job Corps and vocational training facilities (%)
People in Group quarters - Other workers' dormitories (%)
People in Group quarters - Crews of maritime vessels (%)
People in Group quarters - Other nonhousehold living situations (%)
People in Group quarters - Other noninstitutional group quarters (%)
Residents speaking English at home (%)
Residents speaking English at home - Born in the United States (%)
Residents speaking English at home - Native, born elsewhere (%)
Residents speaking English at home - Foreign born (%)
Residents speaking Spanish at home (%)
Residents speaking Spanish at home - Born in the United States (%)
Residents speaking Spanish at home - Native, born elsewhere (%)
Residents speaking Spanish at home - Foreign born (%)
Residents speaking other language at home (%)
Residents speaking other language at home - Born in the United States (%)
Residents speaking other language at home - Native, born elsewhere (%)
Residents speaking other language at home - Foreign born (%)
Class of Workers - Employee of private company (%)
Class of Workers - Self-employed in own incorporated business (%)
Class of Workers - Private not-for-profit wage and salary workers (%)
Class of Workers - Local government workers (%)
Class of Workers - State government workers (%)
Class of Workers - Federal government workers (%)
Class of Workers - Self-employed workers in own not incorporated business and Unpaid family workers (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Utility gas (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Bottled, tank, or LP gas (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Electricity (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Fuel oil, kerosene, etc. (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Coal or coke (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Wood (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Solar energy (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Other fuel (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - No fuel used (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Utility gas (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Bottled, tank, or LP gas (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Electricity (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Fuel oil, kerosene, etc. (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Coal or coke (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Wood (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Solar energy (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Other fuel (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - No fuel used (%)
Armed forces status - In Armed Forces (%)
Armed forces status - Civilian (%)
Armed forces status - Civilian - Veteran (%)
Armed forces status - Civilian - Nonveteran (%)
Fatal accidents locations in years 2005-2021
Fatal accidents locations in 2005
Fatal accidents locations in 2006
Fatal accidents locations in 2007
Fatal accidents locations in 2008
Fatal accidents locations in 2009
Fatal accidents locations in 2010
Fatal accidents locations in 2011
Fatal accidents locations in 2012
Fatal accidents locations in 2013
Fatal accidents locations in 2014
Fatal accidents locations in 2015
Fatal accidents locations in 2016
Fatal accidents locations in 2017
Fatal accidents locations in 2018
Fatal accidents locations in 2019
Fatal accidents locations in 2020
Fatal accidents locations in 2021
Alcohol use - People drinking some alcohol every month (%)
Alcohol use - People not drinking at all (%)
Alcohol use - Average days/month drinking alcohol
Alcohol use - Average drinks/week
Alcohol use - Average days/year people drink much
Audiometry - Average condition of hearing (%)
Audiometry - People that can hear a whisper from across a quiet room (%)
Audiometry - People that can hear normal voice from across a quiet room (%)
Audiometry - Ears ringing, roaring, buzzing (%)
Audiometry - Had a job exposure to loud noise (%)
Audiometry - Had off-work exposure to loud noise (%)
Blood Pressure & Cholesterol - Has high blood pressure (%)
Blood Pressure & Cholesterol - Checking blood pressure at home (%)
Blood Pressure & Cholesterol - Frequently checking blood cholesterol (%)
Blood Pressure & Cholesterol - Has high cholesterol level (%)
Consumer Behavior - Money monthly spent on food at supermarket/grocery store
Consumer Behavior - Money monthly spent on food at other stores
Consumer Behavior - Money monthly spent on eating out
Consumer Behavior - Money monthly spent on carryout/delivered foods
Consumer Behavior - Income spent on food at supermarket/grocery store (%)
Consumer Behavior - Income spent on food at other stores (%)
Consumer Behavior - Income spent on eating out (%)
Consumer Behavior - Income spent on carryout/delivered foods (%)
Current Health Status - General health condition (%)
Current Health Status - Blood donors (%)
Current Health Status - Has blood ever tested for HIV virus (%)
Current Health Status - Left-handed people (%)
Dermatology - People using sunscreen (%)
Diabetes - Diabetics (%)
Diabetes - Had a blood test for high blood sugar (%)
Diabetes - People taking insulin (%)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Diet health (%)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Milk product consumption (# of products/month)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Meals not home prepared (#/week)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Meals from fast food or pizza place (#/week)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Ready-to-eat foods (#/month)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Frozen meals/pizza (#/month)
Drug Use - People that ever used marijuana or hashish (%)
Drug Use - Ever used hard drugs (%)
Drug Use - Ever used any form of cocaine (%)
Drug Use - Ever used heroin (%)
Drug Use - Ever used methamphetamine (%)
Health Insurance - People covered by health insurance (%)
Kidney Conditions-Urology - Avg. # of times urinating at night
Medical Conditions - People with asthma (%)
Medical Conditions - People with anemia (%)
Medical Conditions - People with psoriasis (%)
Medical Conditions - People with overweight (%)
Medical Conditions - Elderly people having difficulties in thinking or remembering (%)
Medical Conditions - People who ever received blood transfusion (%)
Medical Conditions - People having trouble seeing even with glass/contacts (%)
Medical Conditions - People with arthritis (%)
Medical Conditions - People with gout (%)
Medical Conditions - People with congestive heart failure (%)
Medical Conditions - People with coronary heart disease (%)
Medical Conditions - People with angina pectoris (%)
Medical Conditions - People who ever had heart attack (%)
Medical Conditions - People who ever had stroke (%)
Medical Conditions - People with emphysema (%)
Medical Conditions - People with thyroid problem (%)
Medical Conditions - People with chronic bronchitis (%)
Medical Conditions - People with any liver condition (%)
Medical Conditions - People who ever had cancer or malignancy (%)
Mental Health - People who have little interest in doing things (%)
Mental Health - People feeling down, depressed, or hopeless (%)
Mental Health - People who have trouble sleeping or sleeping too much (%)
Mental Health - People feeling tired or having little energy (%)
Mental Health - People with poor appetite or overeating (%)
Mental Health - People feeling bad about themself (%)
Mental Health - People who have trouble concentrating on things (%)
Mental Health - People moving or speaking slowly or too fast (%)
Mental Health - People having thoughts they would be better off dead (%)
Oral Health - Average years since last visit a dentist
Oral Health - People embarrassed because of mouth (%)
Oral Health - People with gum disease (%)
Oral Health - General health of teeth and gums (%)
Oral Health - Average days a week using dental floss/device
Oral Health - Average days a week using mouthwash for dental problem
Oral Health - Average number of teeth
Pesticide Use - Households using pesticides to control insects (%)
Pesticide Use - Households using pesticides to kill weeds (%)
Physical Activity - People doing vigorous-intensity work activities (%)
Physical Activity - People doing moderate-intensity work activities (%)
Physical Activity - People walking or bicycling (%)
Physical Activity - People doing vigorous-intensity recreational activities (%)
Physical Activity - People doing moderate-intensity recreational activities (%)
Physical Activity - Average hours a day doing sedentary activities
Physical Activity - Average hours a day watching TV or videos
Physical Activity - Average hours a day using computer
Physical Functioning - People having limitations keeping them from working (%)
Physical Functioning - People limited in amount of work they can do (%)
Physical Functioning - People that need special equipment to walk (%)
Physical Functioning - People experiencing confusion/memory problems (%)
Physical Functioning - People requiring special healthcare equipment (%)
Prescription Medications - Average number of prescription medicines taking
Preventive Aspirin Use - Adults 40+ taking low-dose aspirin (%)
Reproductive Health - Vaginal deliveries (%)
Reproductive Health - Cesarean deliveries (%)
Reproductive Health - Deliveries resulted in a live birth (%)
Reproductive Health - Pregnancies resulted in a delivery (%)
Reproductive Health - Women breastfeeding newborns (%)
Reproductive Health - Women that had a hysterectomy (%)
Reproductive Health - Women that had both ovaries removed (%)
Reproductive Health - Women that have ever taken birth control pills (%)
Reproductive Health - Women taking birth control pills (%)
Reproductive Health - Women that have ever used Depo-Provera or injectables (%)
Reproductive Health - Women that have ever used female hormones (%)
Sexual Behavior - People 18+ that ever had sex (vaginal, anal, or oral) (%)
Sexual Behavior - Males 18+ that ever had vaginal sex with a woman (%)
Sexual Behavior - Males 18+ that ever performed oral sex on a woman (%)
Sexual Behavior - Males 18+ that ever had anal sex with a woman (%)
Sexual Behavior - Males 18+ that ever had any sex with a man (%)
Sexual Behavior - Females 18+ that ever had vaginal sex with a man (%)
Sexual Behavior - Females 18+ that ever performed oral sex on a man (%)
Sexual Behavior - Females 18+ that ever had anal sex with a man (%)
Sexual Behavior - Females 18+ that ever had any kind of sex with a woman (%)
Sexual Behavior - Average age people first had sex
Sexual Behavior - Average number of female sex partners in lifetime (males 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of female vaginal sex partners in lifetime (males 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average age people first performed oral sex on a woman (18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of woman performed oral sex on in lifetime (18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of male sex partners in lifetime (males 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of male anal sex partners in lifetime (males 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average age people first performed oral sex on a man (18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of male oral sex partners in lifetime (18+)
Sexual Behavior - People using protection when performing oral sex (%)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of times people have vaginal or anal sex a year
Sexual Behavior - People having sex without condom (%)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of male sex partners in lifetime (females 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of male vaginal sex partners in lifetime (females 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of female sex partners in lifetime (females 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Circumcised males 18+ (%)
Sleep Disorders - Average hours sleeping at night
Sleep Disorders - People that has trouble sleeping (%)
Smoking-Cigarette Use - People smoking cigarettes (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ having problems with smell (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ having problems with taste (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ that ever had wisdom teeth removed (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ that ever had tonsils teeth removed (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ that ever had a loss of consciousness because of a head injury (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ that ever had a broken nose or other serious injury to face or skull (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ that ever had two or more sinus infections (%)
Weight - Average height (inches)
Weight - Average weight (pounds)
Weight - Average BMI
Weight - People that are obese (%)
Weight - People that ever were obese (%)
Weight - People trying to lose weight (%)