So Maryland wants to raise gas taxes 15 cents a gallon!

[westsideboy]

Originally Posted by MDAllstar

So who should pay for it?

I am not a big fan of government subsidies for growth anywhere. If it were up to me, I would say eliminate all of them. But if subsidies are going to exist, then they should be used to help all parts of the state. In parts of the state where sprawl is a big problem and in-fill is needed, the money can be used there.

In parts of the state where negative growth is occuring, and trees outnumber people, than pretty much anywhere a private developer is willing to partner with the state to help develop the area, they should get the same deals.

I would love for Allegany County to be off the dole so you guys could get your tax money back. That won't happen unless the state changes its policies on business regulation, taxation, and growth. Even then we face a long road back.

[Phyxius]

Originally Posted by North Beach Person

Which was what the Maryland 2020 Plan from the 80's through Glendenning's Smart Growth to the current Plan Maryland of O'Malley have all tried to do.

The problem is in the implementation and the fact that the Counties and municipalities believe, with some justification, that Planning and Zoning functions are going to be taken away from the locals, basically a "one size fits all" plan.

You have to remember the genesis of a lot of the sprawl of the 80's and 90's. Some of it was caused by an increase in population, a lot of it was caused by the Baby Boomers wanting to buy houses. Some of it was certainly white flight. A major portion was intentional planning by both the State and the Counties to foster growth in outlying areas which needed something.

Forty years ago Calvert and Charles Counties were in the same position that Allegany is today. A stagnant population which was among the poorest in the State. Calvert started to change with the construction of CCNPP and the growth of the suburbs. When I moved to MD Calvert was considered the back of the beyond, as were Charles and St. Mary's Counties and even Upper Marlboro. Now they're all desirable locations. The advantage of all of them that Allegany doesn't have is the proximity to DC. That's the rock that sinks the boat for them. Tourism won't rescue them nor will gambling. Extractive industries might but the will has to be there to allow those to grow.

A note from up thread: the partial re-vitalization of Pittsburgh was driven in no small part by the expansion , some will say predatory expansion, of UPMC.

You know how the increase in population occur, building houses but that's not the problem. It's the lack of control of growth and where it's located. Growth has to stop at some point, you can't just keep building and building outward. Outlying areas need to be developed when there is existing towns or population nearby. Planning may be intentional but it wasn't logical.

I'm glad you mentioned Charles County, Waldorf in particular, it's a mess. You drive along 301 and see miles of strip malls, car dealerships all out of place, generic single family houses on 228 and 5 with cul de sacs, choking traffic on main arteries. I see nothing desirable about any place that does the same thing with it's nonsensical developments and they keep on developing stuff.


You can't just keep building stuff illogically. There's a difference between growing and growing stupid. Developers build wherever they want to but don't think about the increase in traffic or how difficult it is to access those areas. You revitalize existing areas, and businesses will come.

The Counties and Municipalities should learn and the state need to make adjustments to make it stronger. There's nothing wrong with growing, it's how you do it.

If all counties and municipalities do whatever the hell they want to do, then nothing will be accomplished. The state and local governments all have to work together in order for this to work. "one size fits all" plan works in Portland, OR. The state will only fund in existing cities but since developers are too stubborn to comply, they can fund it themselves along with the utilities and infrastructures that comes along with it.

[North Beach Person]

Waldorf is definitely the poster child for "Do Not Do". And everyone recognizes that. Unfortunately the issues there have to be dealt with.

You also have to remember the inordinate influence developers/builders have on all levels of government in the State.

In 1987 Calvert County adopted some really stringent growth control regulations. The problem was that they didn't go into effect immediately, there was a 3 month window after adoption that allowed developers to sub-divide properties until the law went into effect. The day before that happened the line of developers waiting to sub-divide stretched down the street and around the block. The result is that the inventory of lots created back then just ran out a couple years ago. In the intervening years population of the County nearly tripled, a school a year had to be built for a twenty year period along with a 4 or 5 fold expansion of the Sheriff's Department and the expansion of other government services.

That scenario was repeated nearly everywhere in this area.

[MDAllstar]

Originally Posted by westsideboy

I am not a big fan of government subsidies for growth anywhere. If it were up to me, I would say eliminate all of them. But if subsidies are going to exist, then they should be used to help all parts of the state. In parts of the state where sprawl is a big problem and in-fill is needed, the money can be used there.

In parts of the state where negative growth is occuring, and trees outnumber people, than pretty much anywhere a private developer is willing to partner with the state to help develop the area, they should get the same deals.

I would love for Allegany County to be off the dole so you guys could get your tax money back. That won't happen unless the state changes its policies on business regulation, taxation, and growth. Even then we face a long road back.

So what kind of growth do you feel is appropriate? Infill is not about single family homes. It's about mixed use. Building a real mixed use city with offices and residents above retail is what infill is about. Adding in new development always precedes rehabbing old houses. Why couldn't that same developer build a mixed use new urbanism development in Cumberland itself?

[westsideboy]

Originally Posted by MDAllstar

So what kind of growth do you feel is appropriate? Infill is not about single family homes. It's about mixed use. Building a real mixed use city with offices and residents above retail is what infill is about. Adding in new development always precedes rehabbing old houses. Why couldn't that same developer build a mixed use new urbanism development in Cumberland itself?

We have a real downtown in our real city with the very "mixed use" buildings you describe. There are even more buildings that fit this model that sit vacant. We already have that. I am not kidding when I say you should come check it out. You are big fan of "new urbansim" we have "old urbanism" back from a time when that sort of development was the norm.

What we need is suburban housing. We don't have enough. Most people, especially new residents, don't want to live up in the holler, or in the city on small lots that were sub-divided in the early 20th century or before. We need a little bit of what you guys got, larger lots in less dense areas, where the price point of housing, and distance from the city itself attracts upper middle class earners.

I have talked to many upper-middle class people that have a very hard time finding this type of housing in Allegany County. So they move across the river to WV instead, where zoning is less tight and this kind of housing is being built. Again Western Maryland loses out to our neighbors because of downstate regulations.

[EdwardA]

Didn't read all the posts but some really could informative posts. Personally I think a laizze-faire approach to development is optimal with some obvious caveats like no strip joints next to schools for example.

I just think the market is far better at determining what works best for a given area then state government.

[sowens77]

This Maryland government is just trying to push us into moving out of this state! Raising every tax, every fee, over and over again? Slot money and our new highway is a toll road? We'll be hearing soon how it isn't making enough money and they'll have to raise that toll.

Anybody else find it interesting that the new fuel tax is as a percentage so it rises as the cost of gasoline rises? Even though the cost for highway upkeep wouldn't rise we would pay more fuel tax.

[pcity]

Originally Posted by sowens77

Even though the cost for highway upkeep wouldn't rise we would pay more fuel tax.

What do you think the machines used for highway upkeep use for energy? How do you think asphalt is made? Do you think workers get paid the same amount regardless of inflation?

The cost for highway upkeep is closely related to energy costs. That's one reason there was such a push for "shovel-ready" infrastructure projects back in 2008- as the cost of energy fell, so did the cost of infrastructure projects.

[back2MD]

Originally Posted by sowens77

This Maryland government is just trying to push us into moving out of this state! Raising every tax, every fee, over and over again? Slot money and our new highway is a toll road? We'll be hearing soon how it isn't making enough money and they'll have to raise that toll.

Anybody else find it interesting that the new fuel tax is as a percentage so it rises as the cost of gasoline rises? Even though the cost for highway upkeep wouldn't rise we would pay more fuel tax.