$1 billion casino at National Harbor proposed by Prince George’s Executive Baker (Baltimore: neighborhoods, live)

[justtitans]

Originally Posted by UrbanScholar

That's what they plan to do though. Anyone stay there would have full access to 210 at Kerby Hill Rd

That's not true. I actually live in the complex. There is only one way in and one way out. There is no way to actually connect to Kerby Hill Road from the complex although it would seem to make sense to do so and probably is something that should be considered. As a matter of fact there was a controversy recently about the entrance of our community that drew attention in the Post:

Race turns into ‘a train wreck’ for runners, residents - The Washington Post

[Phyxius]

Originally Posted by pgtitans

That's not true. I actually live in the complex. There is only one way in and one way out. There is no way to actually connect to Kerby Hill Road from the complex although it would seem to make sense to do so and probably is something that should be considered. As a matter of fact there was a controversy recently about the entrance of our community that drew attention in the Post:

Race turns into ‘a train wreck’ for runners, residents - The Washington Post

http://apps.roads.maryland.gov/WebPr...1_Nov%2004.pdf

The only thing that changes at the current entrance is no entry to Northbound 210. Keep in mind, this is still under study. This isn't final.

[UrbanScholar]

Originally Posted by pgtitans

That sounds really great but I wouldn't hold my breath on that. I mean there are a lot of things that would have to change a lot!!!! I mean for starters, the mall would be isolated from the rest of that area regardless. And even the downtown part would remain isolated from the National Harbor and it would basically be three separate parts instead of a continual downtown like most urban areas have. Then there is a high school (which is being re-built as we speak), an elementary school, a post office and a church that occupy that area. Even if you brought up all the retail in that area, they would have to have some plan to implement all of those into that structure. An elementary school and a church on a main corridor of an area like that doesn't scream urban. Not only that they would have to do massive, MASSIVE work to some of the existing shopping centers. Those shopping centers at the corner of Livingston Road and Oxon Hill Road are atrocious and would have to be tore down completely in order to have any resemblance of an attractive downtown area. To me that sounds like a lot. That sounds like something that wouldn't happen for decades. Do you not agree?

Definitely agree that it wouldn't happen overnight. No change that significant would happen in a short period of time (say five to ten years). Like you said it would probably be at least 20 years. However, based on the narrative and renderings, all of the things you mentioned would be relocated somewhere else. I am sure some of the retail that fits the vision will become a part of the street level retail. You are also spot on with downtown OH and NH being walkable but if the public transportation option is implemented it would be easier to move between the two (as well as other parts of the area). Its speculative at this point but at least its in the "parking lot".

[adelphi_sky]

If I see ONE person walking from their hotel to the mall, I'm taking a picture and posting it in this forum. And I'll admit, I'm focusing on what NH will be, not necessarily its current configuration. I do enjoy these discussions, but without the questioning of people's intelligence. That makes it not fun anymore.

[justtitans]

Originally Posted by adelphi_sky

If I see ONE person walking from their hotel to the mall, I'm taking a picture and posting it in this forum. And I'll admit, I'm focusing on what NH will be, not necessarily its current configuration. I do enjoy these discussions, but without the questioning of people's intelligence. That makes it not fun anymore.

As far as a person walking, I still don't understand why you don't understand where I'm coming from. I didn't suggest no one is making that walk. I said it was unlikely and the main point I was making is that the location of the mall isn't designed to get pedestrian traffic from the hotels. If you look at the location you will notice that it is directly off the exit 495 and 210. It appears as though their aim is to get car traffic not foot traffic. If they wanted hotel guests, then why not build it in the main corridor of National Harbor?

I never questioned your intelligence, I questioned your knowledge of the project based on some of the things that you have stated. I appreciate hearing other people's opinion whether I agree with them or not, but it's also not fun to talk about something when someone is creating points just to help their argument and not really looking at facts. Some of the suggestions you have made have been based on your interpretation of what you want the project to be, as you just stated. My point has been that things you were bringing up aren't realistic because of the way the area is currently designed. I understand what you mean about making it an urban area, but you constantly ignored the number of SFH neighborhoods that surrounded the location. You suggested that they suck it up and deal with it, but that's not realistic. People will always oppose projects like this and sometimes there has to be a compromise to meet most people's needs. I didn't say that I disagree with everything you said about adding development, but what make sense to you and me will not make sense to everyone, so I whether look at what is actually realistic as oppose to what I desire.

[UrbanScholar]

Originally Posted by pgtitans

That's not true. I actually live in the complex. There is only one way in and one way out. There is no way to actually connect to Kerby Hill Road from the complex although it would seem to make sense to do so and probably is something that should be considered. As a matter of fact there was a controversy recently about the entrance of our community that drew attention in the Post:

Race turns into ‘a train wreck’ for runners, residents - The Washington Post

I agree that there currently isn't direct access. I am just citing what was stated on MD SHA's site. They conveyed that some connection will be built to allow access to Kerby Hill Road. Now how that is going to happend I don't know. There is no real detail on that.

[justtitans]

Originally Posted by UrbanScholar

I agree that there currently isn't direct access. I am just citing what was stated on MD SHA's site. They conveyed that some connection will be built to allow access to Kerby Hill Road. Now how that is going to happend I don't know. There is no real detail on that.

I hope it does. That would really eliminate to need for that light and help traffic out a lot.

[UrbanScholar]

Originally Posted by pgtitans

I hope it does. That would really eliminate to need for that light and help traffic out a lot.

I agree. My suggestion is if they revisit community input (which they should considering the time that has elapsed). You should bring that to their attention if a concrete plan is not presented that addresses it.

[adelphi_sky]

Originally Posted by pgtitans

As far as a person walking, I still don't understand why you don't understand where I'm coming from. I didn't suggest no one is making that walk. I said it was unlikely and the main point I was making is that the location of the mall isn't designed to get pedestrian traffic from the hotels. If you look at the location you will notice that it is directly off the exit 495 and 210. It appears as though their aim is to get car traffic not foot traffic. If they wanted hotel guests, then why not build it in the main corridor of National Harbor?

I understand that you feel people will not walk. I feel that there will be some who choose to, including me. Especially if it is a nice day. People walk across the Woodrow Wilson Bridge to NH and vice versa. That is longer than two miles.

I never questioned your intelligence, I questioned your knowledge of the project based on some of the things that you have stated. I appreciate hearing other people's opinion whether I agree with them or not, but it's also not fun to talk about something when someone is creating points just to help their argument and not really looking at facts. Some of the suggestions you have made have been based on your interpretation of what you want the project to be, as you just stated.

Incorrect. I never stated what I want the project to be. In addition, I don't "create" points out of thin air. At face value, and you can disagree with this, NH was designed and purposed to be a walkable regional/national destination. Period. I'm sure The Peterson executives would agree. The addition of the outlet mall and the casino fits into that plan. Anyone can look at the design and FUTURE site plans and agree. If anyone feels that NH was meant for Ft. Washington/Oxon HIll or even PG alone is mistaken.
Yes, currently people have to DRIVE there. But once they are there, they are free to walk the entire development if they wish. Gaylord doesn't build convention hotels for the local neighborhood. That's not MY desire or wish, that's fact. I don't think my opinions or suggestions have strayed from that.

Konterra will be for those who live, work, and play in Konterra. There are few access roads and a lack of sidewalks from the one small neighborhood next to Konterra. It is not the intention of the developers to somehow make Laurel or Beltsville walkable just by building Konterra. Konterra will be self-contained just like NH. People will have to drive there. But once they are there, they will be able to walk WITHIN the Konterra development. The outlet mall for NH is not so far removed that it can't be walked to from the center of NH. The mall is meant to be associated with NH hence the name. What we see now is not how the completed development is supposed to look.

My point has been that things you were bringing up aren't realistic because of the way the area is currently designed.

Of course not! This whole discussion started with the Casino. The NH area will take on a different look and feel with a billion dollar casino, outlet mall (even though it is a mile away), the children's museum (hopefully completed by then), more residences, etc. All of my opinions are post-mall/post-casino (if it ever materializes).

I understand what you mean about making it an urban area, but you constantly ignored the number of SFH neighborhoods that surrounded the location.

I never suggested that NH would make Oxon HIll/Ft. Washington an urban area. NH is supposed to be a self-contained mixed-use urban district. Those other areas are what they are, suburban SFH neighborhoods. That won't change unless they bulldoze the whole neighborhood and start over. NH is an edge development. That means it sits outside of established neighborhoods. Not in the middle. It is bounded by the river to the west, 495 to the north, and SFHs to the south. (self-contained)

You suggested that they suck it up and deal with it, but that's not realistic.

Well, what else are the residents going to do? They can move. NH is here and it is very successful. They're not going to tear it down. Residents can disagree all day long, it won't change the fact that NH will CONTINUE to add development if a majority of the county supports it. That's how things work. Therefore, the residents have no other choice. That's reality no matter how harsh that reality may be for some of the residents.

People will always oppose projects like this and sometimes there has to be a compromise to meet most people's needs. I didn't say that I disagree with everything you said about adding development, but what make sense to you and me will not make sense to everyone, so I whether look at what is actually realistic as oppose to what I desire.

I take issue that you somehow ascribe a certain desire that I never communicated. NH is what it is, a national destination that is mixed-use and walkable in and of itself. I don't desire that it be walkable, it is and will continue to be. Simple.

[UrbanScholar]

Looks like the Senate Budget and Taxation Committee is going to have an initial vote on the new gaming bill tomorrow. They have added an amendment to transfer the the cost of leasing the slot machines to the private owner something that most states require. Below you will find an article discussing that point.

Maryland to consider shifting ownership of slot machines - Maryland Politics - The Washington Post