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I believe that's a right-leaning blog. Though I had issues with the first line:
I find it hard to believe how any culture could maintain family stability during Jim Crow, lynchings, rampant discrimination which included redlining as it pertains to the subject matter of this thread, and mass incarceration. I wouldn't put a large part of the blame on welfare.
But I continued to read. Unfortunately a lot of their source material leads you to empty web pages.
This person did a poor job of citing references.
I'm sorry but it seems like you are trying your hardest to find something wrong with the blog. I'm not necessarily suggesting that you should agree with it, but the political influence of the blog is irrelevant if it's the truth. The interesting thing is, there have been people who read the article I posted and assumed it must be a left-leaning article. Does it really matter? Shouldn't all that matter is if it's true or not, no matter the source? We have become so conditioned to focus on the source rather than the actual material and we never really focus on what is being pointed out. I digress.
You think Jim Crow and all those other things contributed to the black family becoming unstable? So then why is the child out of wedlock rate so high now, when none of those things exist?
Part of the theory I follow has to do with proverbial safety net of the government and my own anecdotal experiences. Here's a link to an article that articulates the issue much better than I: How the Welfare State Has Devastated African Americans - Discover the Networks
I never accepted the notion that black people were simply an inferior race. I have an obvious bias of course, but I can handle hard truths about myself and others, when they make sense. I'd like to do more digging, but the information in the above link lit a bulb in my head a long time ago.
The portion about the disincentive for marriage is tough because that is really a huge factor in creating poverty. If you have so many single women who have kids, even if they make 6 figures, their wealth is cut down considerably. There are far too many illegitimate kids in the black community to help family build wealth. It's extremely rare to find a scenario where you have single parents who can build wealth for themselves as well as their offspring. Breaking the chain of debt is where it starts because as long as someone has debt, then it will just continue to be passed on to the next generation.
Home in black neighborhoods: Appeals to only blacks (13% of pop) and maybe a small scattering of other races looking for affordable real estate Home in white neighborhoods: Appeals to whites (75% of pop), Asians, Hispanics and even some Blacks
White neighborhoods would therefore have exponentially more demand and an exponentially larger market.
I think this is a huge factor. It boils down to supply and demand and being that black neighborhoods really only appeal to other blacks there is just not nearly enough of a demand market to drive those prices up like in "White" neighborhoods that appeal to a much higher percentage of the population and to people of other races (thus creating a more competitive market and driving those home prices up). This ties in with what I was saying about promoting more diverse and integrated neighborhoods. The way I see it is that if people want real estate to appreciate at a higher rate in black neighborhoods they need to attract a wider audience to create a more competitive market or they need to buy a home in an area that will attract a wider market when they go to eventually sell it. On the flip side if you want to look at things optimistically the way things are now with black neighborhoods having repressed home values, it creates a more affordable market for first time black home buyers to purchase a home in an area they feel comfortable in.
I'm sorry but it seems like you are trying your hardest to find something wrong with the blog. I'm not necessarily suggesting that you should agree with it, but the political influence of the blog is irrelevant if it's the truth. The interesting thing is, there have been people who read the article I posted and assumed it must be a left-leaning article. Does it really matter? Shouldn't all that matter is if it's true or not, no matter the source? We have become so conditioned to focus on the source rather than the actual material and we never really focus on what is being pointed out. I digress.
You think Jim Crow and all those other things contributed to the black family becoming unstable? So then why is the child out of wedlock rate so high now, when none of those things exist?
No he's not. He made some good points. It is a right-leaning blog. As for the people who assumed it was a left-leaning blog, sorry, but they can't be that stupid. Or else, they weren't reading carefully and did not venture beyond the article cited. Furthermore, a bunch of dead links can be a credibility buster. The ideological perspective does matter, because the material presented will always be considered biased, fair or not. The blog uses some data to reach an opinion about the impact of welfare. What is this "truth" you speak of, because I see opinions, allegedly supported by figures and links.
I am no fan of welfare, because too many people lean on it, and it really can be a trap if one is not careful. But that over-dependence is not limited to single mothers. Ever heard of the term "mother's day?" Not the holiday, but welfare day, when the benefits arrive and here comes the practically non-existent father or the trifling boyfriend to get a piece of the money that is supposed to be spent on the children. People get upset about their tax dollars financing welfare programs, but I believe it is needed. However, there is too little incentive to make welfare a more temporary solution, because those who are a product of generations of public assistance dependency don't know about stable employment.
Contrary to popular belief, there is a work requirement for TANF. Or at least you have to be doing something similar (school, interning, looking for a job). And recipients can be penalized (not receive benefits) if they are found to be violating program rules. However, the transition from welfare to work is difficult.
From what I see, welfare recipients need to be given jobs, not just benefits. They also need to be taught how to find and how to KEEP a job. The poverty and entitlement mindset can be very, very deep and difficult to change.
The portion about the disincentive for marriage is tough because that is really a huge factor in creating poverty. If you have so many single women who have kids, even if they make 6 figures, their wealth is cut down considerably. There are far too many illegitimate kids in the black community to help family build wealth. It's extremely rare to find a scenario where you have single parents who can build wealth for themselves as well as their offspring. Breaking the chain of debt is where it starts because as long as someone has debt, then it will just continue to be passed on to the next generation.
I agree with this. But that's not a problem that is rooted in welfare, in my opinion. Just look at the six-figure single mother. What's up there? Not a welfare disincentive.
No he's not. He made some good points. It is a right-leaning blog. As for the people who assumed it was a left-leaning blog, sorry, but they can't be that stupid. Or else, they weren't reading carefully and did not venture beyond the article cited. Furthermore, a bunch of dead links can be a credibility buster. The ideological perspective does matter, because the material presented will always be considered biased, fair or not. The blog uses some data to reach an opinion about the impact of welfare. What is this "truth" you speak of, because I see opinions, allegedly supported by figures and links.
Clarification: The left-leaning accusation came in reference to the article that "I posted" not the one that Ibanezguitar posted.
I didn't necessarily suggest if I believe what was said was true or not. I believe that is irrelevant to my point. I believe it's more important to determine what is factual and what is not. Ideological perspective only matters to people who only accept points from one side, which is not really truth, it's subjectivity. I am not going to accept something just because you have a certain letter behind your name. There isn't a man or woman walking this earth that I put that much trust in. That is making those people my idols at that point and putting them in a position that should only be for the God that I believe in and serve. My point is I can accept certain things that are true regardless of who it comes from because it's true. The key is to seeking the truth.
If you disagree with the information then what do you disagree with? Do you have statistics that debunk what the author is saying? Having broken links is certainly not good, but that doesn't mean the information he is giving is wrong. I'm just trying to understand how do people decide when something is wrong. Is it because of what is said or because of who said it? That is ad hominem right there. Bowian I can disagree with you about a number of topics, but you could tell me what it's like to be a mother raising kids. Does that mean because I disagreed with you on other topics that everything else you say is wrong, including being a mother, even though you have an expertise in that subject? I honestly try to be as fair and impartial as possible when it comes to information like this, which is one of the reasons why I do not like political parties. It stops people from gather their own information and making their own decisions of what's right and what's wrong in their eyes.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bowian
I am no fan of welfare, because too many people lean on it, and it really can be a trap if one is not careful. But that over-dependence is not limited to single mothers. Ever heard of the term "mother's day?" Not the holiday, but welfare day, when the benefits arrive and here comes the practically non-existent father or the trifling boyfriend to get a piece of the money that is supposed to be spent on the children. People get upset about their tax dollars financing welfare programs, but I believe it is needed. However, there is too little incentive to make welfare a more temporary solution, because those who are a product of generations of public assistance dependency don't know about stable employment.
I agree with you. Welfare is being abused and this is something I discussed on another part of this website. There are people who live in these environments who do not know anything beyond their environment. Kids rarely are exposed to anything beyond their neighborhoods and aren't able to imagine a life beyond living in poverty and relying on welfare. I do believe men greatly contribute to these situations. There are far too many men who have children and are quick to leave these women, but where does this start? Often times, I believe, these men do not take responsibility as men because they haven't had the example in their own lives, or in other words, they didn't have father figures themselves and they end up repeating generational curses. It's a vicious cycle created. Women need to know their worth and not continue to have sex/children with men who do not commit to marrying them and men need direction and understand that they are important to their children having a better life than they have had.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bowian
Contrary to popular belief, there is a work requirement for TANF. Or at least you have to be doing something similar (school, interning, looking for a job). And recipients can be penalized (not receive benefits) if they are found to be violating program rules. However, the transition from welfare to work is difficult.
The problem is though, those requirements are loosely imposed. People find loopholes and they end up living off of these programs without doing the necessary work.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bowian
From what I see, welfare recipients need to be given jobs, not just benefits. They also need to be taught how to find and how to KEEP a job. The poverty and entitlement mindset can be very, very deep and difficult to change.
The only way you can give people jobs that they can keep is by giving them skills. The problem is our country is becoming focused on everyone getting a college degree and if you don't you are a failure. I know quite a few people who make a good living without going to college. Exposure to opportunities could certainly go a long way.
Not to go off base, but I want to add that this is the reason why I disagree strongly with raising the minimum wage. Those jobs pay low for a reason and people who try to raise families off of these jobs will struggle no matter how much you raise wages. More than that, these jobs are unstable because to a company it's not worth paying extra money to marginal employees and giving them extra benefits when you can easily get someone off the street that can work that job tomorrow and would be willing to work for a lot less. The only way you overcome poverty, working unstable low-wage jobs, and gain financial stability is creating a market for yourself by having skills that are in demand. Working as a cashier at McDonald's should not be someone's goal to raise a family I am sorry. That mentality needs to change but it starts with voters and the people we elect.
Last edited by justtitans; 04-10-2014 at 11:51 AM..
I agree with this. But that's not a problem that is rooted in welfare, in my opinion. Just look at the six-figure single mother. What's up there? Not a welfare disincentive.
Definitely not, but why are they single? Why are there so many broken homes?
The family, especially the black family, has been under attack. People rarely these days see positive marriages around them. I will tell you, when I take my family out to eat, it's one of the most strangest things because people see me, the father and husband, who is black, out with my wife and my daughters and they stare at us. We have had black and white people come up to us and make comments about our family and how it's rare to see a black family or how it's rare to see kids well behave in restaurants. To me, I used to think it was weird but then I realized, it's just rare these days.
Now we have a culture where women are embracing being single and men believe it's okay to cheat on their wives/significant others. Nothing wrong with being single, but the issue is why are you single? Are you single because you have had failed relationships? Why do men cheat on their women? Is it because they seen others do it? People do not understand how to maintain relationships whether it's men, women or both. Where are the positive black images? Where are the men encourage young men to commit to their women before sleeping with them?
Welfare plays a role certainly, but I can definitely agree that there are many other factors included in this as well.
Definitely not, but why are they single? Why are there so many broken homes?
I can assure you welfare isn't the culprit and I would argue that if it does play a role, that role is miniscule. There has always been the lack of eligible black men for black women. Either because of socioeconomic status, sexual orientation, incarceration, lack of education, or baby-momma issues.
Some women are career women and choose to put off marriage until much later. Half of the women in my family are successful career-wise and single with no children. As a matter of fact, career ambition has been an issue lately with women putting off marriage in college where they would likely find most of the eligible black men. But they put marriage off until the numbers of eligible black men dwindle and wonder why they are still single in their mid-thirties.
Other causes are divorce and people co-habitating, etc. Some women choose to adopt and not get married. And lately, interracial marriages have become more acceptable. Therefore, it's not a given that a black woman will choose to marry a black man. I have two goddaughters now who are dating white men in college.
Lastly, people are more content with being single. Marriage is not a high priority or as important (when young) as it was 50 years ago.
I think welfare would come in last as to why there aren't many black married couples.
Quote:
We have had black and white people come up to us and make comments about our family and how it's rare to see a black family
Really? I see black families all the time. All ages and sizes. I see it when I travel as well. And that's one hell of an odd thing to say to a stranger, that you hardly see black families. There are a lot of people who never venture outside of their communities much. I experienced that in the mid-west. The people there were clueless.
I can assure you welfare isn't the culprit and I would argue that if it does play a role, that role is miniscule. There has always been the lack of eligible black men for black women. Either because of socioeconomic status, sexual orientation, incarceration, lack of education, or baby-momma issues.
Some women are career women and choose to put off marriage until much later. Half of the women in my family are successful career-wise and single with no children. As a matter of fact, career ambition has been an issue lately with women putting off marriage in college where they would likely find most of the eligible black men. But they put marriage off until the numbers of eligible black men dwindle and wonder why they are still single in their mid-thirties.
Other causes are divorce and people co-habitating, etc. Some women choose to adopt and not get married. And lately, interracial marriages have become more acceptable. Therefore, it's not a given that a black woman will choose to marry a black man. I have two goddaughters now who are dating white men in college.
Lastly, people are more content with being single. Marriage is not a high priority or as important (when young) as it was 50 years ago.
I think welfare would come in last as to why there aren't many black married couples.
Eligible black men? What makes a man eligible? Are all these women perfect and marriage material? I am certain that not all of this falls on men, much less women. There is a serious problem with commitment and healthy relationships in our country, period. Welfare is not the only culprit but it doesn't help. Maybe the figures that were presented are just a mere coincidence. But I will say that what you said, makes it seem as though the men, or at least the quality of men, are the reason why these women aren't married.
I think the points you bring up are important, but let's think about this for a moment. Why do women feel as though they have to be so career driven and put off marriage? It speaks to this modern day idea of women. There is nothing wrong with women feeling as though they need to have a career, but when you put off marriage, it makes you wonder why waiting later to marry is okay? Is it not as important? Is it a lack of trust in men being able to care for you? I understand that not everyone wants to marry young, but so many women are doing just as you said. What has changed? But more than that, we aren't just talking about career women, we are talking about single mother, regardless of income.
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Originally Posted by adelphi_sky
Really? I see black families all the time. All ages and sizes. I see it when I travel as well. And that's one hell of an odd thing to say to a stranger, that you hardly see black families. There are a lot of people who never venture outside of their communities much. I experienced that in the mid-west. The people there were clueless.
Think about where you live. There is a reason why you see more black families. Even with that said, I think it's strange too, which is why I have been freaked out by it. Can you imagine sitting there with your family and having people stare at you while you are eating? The statistics are showing that, in spite of that the marriage rate in the black community is bad. Although you may see it more often where you live at, most places do not see families together like that.
Just 26 percent of black women are married today, compared with 56 percent of Asian women, the ethnic group with the highest proportion of married women.
I may be wrong, but usually black women find eligible black men as a combination of the following:
1. Not in jail and no record. At least not any felonies.
2. Heterosexual
3. College-educated or at least attaining some level of education after high school.
4. Employable (Can maintain a stable job and/or career)
5. Takes care of his responsibilities (manageable credit, can own and/or maintain housing and transportation)
Culturally, black women have been the pillars of strength for black families. They step in to raise the sons of men who are absent for whatever reason. They help to bind the family together. This role-reversal in position and perception of strength has ties back to slavery.
Quote:
By her being left alone, unprotected, with the MALE IMAGE DESTROYED, the ordeal caused her to move from her psychological dependent state to a frozen independent state. In this frozen psychological state of independence, she will raise her MALE and female offspring in reversed roles. For fear of the young man's life, she will raise him to be MENTALLY WEAK and DEPENDENT, but PHYSICALLY STRONG.
Most black women have been taught to not solely rely on a man for their livelihood. In addition, they have been encouraged to attain an education, most often, putting marriage off until after graduation. My best friend had to wait until his wife finished grad school before he had her parent's blessings. My wife went to a majority white university in Indiana and it was normal for white undergrads to be married before graduation or shortly thereafter.
Quote:
I think the points you bring up are important, but let's think about this for a moment. Why do women feel as though they have to be so career driven and put off marriage? It speaks to this modern day idea of women. There is nothing wrong with women feeling as though they need to have a career, but when you put off marriage, it makes you wonder why waiting later to marry is okay? Is it not as important? Is it a lack of trust in men being able to care for you?
I think marriage isn't as important right out of high school/college as it used to be. I could be wrong. And yes, black women are taught to be able to take care of themselves. I would agree that this drive to be self-sufficient is more likely due to the lack of trust in black men and other historical factors previously mentioned.
Quote:
Think about where you live. There is a reason why you see more black families.
I see them in other places too. Black families shouldn't be so foreign to cause someone to walk over and mention it to the very ethnic group they're referring to. Black families have been on TV for decades from the Jeffersons to the Cosby Show and Family Matters. Black families do exist and are not quiet on the endangered list.
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