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Have no idea why you're talking about hacking when you listed DBA and coding positions. But anyway this was my exact point, IF you have the skills and experience to do the job well, they don't care if you have a degree or not. Any IT manager will be first and foremost concerned with whether or not you have the technical skills to do the job and then cultural fit A degree would just be icing on the cake for HR purposes. A degree can also help you if you're just some random joe blow off the street. But no IT manager in DC or anywhere else worth their salt would overlook someone who clearly has the skills to do the job just because of a checkbox that has no impact on whether or not you can do the job.
The OP's concern was whether the lack of bachelors will be a hindrance to his success in the IT field in DC. The answer is no as long as he has a marketable skill set that is in demand, he will do very well for himself.
That's not really how it works in DC. If a company wants to hire you for a contract they want you to have at least a bachelors. It might not be listed as a requirement, but it is. You might have the skills to do the job just fine, but so does the next guy who has a bachelors. Guess which one they are going to hire? They need to collect impressive resumes to win their bids.
This goes double for Federal positions. I don't know anyone in Federal IT/Contracting that doesn't have at least a bachelors.
That's not really how it works in DC. If a company wants to hire you for a contract they want you to have at least a bachelors. It might not be listed as a requirement, but it is. You might have the skills to do the job just fine, but so does the next guy who has a bachelors. Guess which one they are going to hire? They need to collect impressive resumes to win their bids.
This goes double for Federal positions. I don't know anyone in Federal IT/Contracting that doesn't have at least a bachelors.
did you miss this part of my second post?
Quote:
Originally Posted by DC Bossman
DistrictSonic is a little out of touch. Unless it's a government contract in which the bachelors is a hard requirement, most companies do not care if you have the degree or not.
There are a lot of IT jobs in the area and they are not all federal or government contracts.
Quote:
You might have the skills to do the job just fine, but so does the next guy who has a bachelors.
That's not a good assumption to make at all. If we are talking about senior-level Architect/engineering positions that is definitely not the case. I just got done interviewing over 20 candidates over the past 3 months for one of our senior level positions. All had nicely written resumes and I'd say 90% had bachelors at least with a few masters from good schools, but once we got to the technical interview phase, only one had the skills we needed to do the job.
If we're talking lower-level IT positions that are run of the mill (e.g. help desk, noc, etc. ) then sure, but once you get to the higher level positions technical skills carry much heavier weight
Last edited by DC Bossman; 05-06-2015 at 11:00 AM..
If we're talking lower-level IT positions that are run of the mill (e.g. help desk, noc, etc. ) then sure, but once you get to the higher level positions technical skills carry much heavier weight
Actually the lower level positions is where one is least likely to have a bachelors or graduate degree, help desk especially usually does not require one. It is a the higher level development staff ones you begin to find most people in the positions have bachelors or higher, and in most postings they require it, whether or not it's government contracting work. Yes technical skills matters, and getting past a technical interview is essential.
Again you proved the point 90% of those you interviewed had at least a bachelors. You are right the technical skills matter more, but the acquisition of those skills is unlikely for those without a bachelors or higher. So it's used as a screening mechanism that many places use so they don't waste their time on screening out resumes.
What's going to happen to professional IT workers when corporations invest serious $$$$ in rolling out artificial intelligence "laborers"? Machines that can not only do routine programming but they can troubleshoot sophisticated network or software glitches. Machines that can CREATE and INNOVATE codes on their own.
The company boss does not have to worry about payroll taxes, 401K plans, vacation time, sick days because those AI machines can run 24/7 with no overtime cost.
I would NOT advise young people to find a career in computer science that involved engineering or programming since AI devices can do that themselves. Better stick to sales or physical maintenance work.
I dream that AI will eviscerate all professional jobs just as machinery wiped out millions of blue-collar labor jobs.
lol, thanks for the laugh. What you're dreaming of won't happen for quite a while. Machines are nowhere close to coding sophisticated software on their own based on business requirements hashed out in meetings with clients and clients ever changing requirements throughout a project.
lol, thanks for the laugh. What you're dreaming of won't happen for quite a while. Machines are nowhere close to coding sophisticated software on their own based on business requirements hashed out in meetings with clients and clients ever changing requirements throughout a project.
With that being said, there are more configurable software solutions where an analyst can build something for a customer without the need for an engineer. But even then these are more for simple business use cases. This is not so much autocoding, since such a thing does not exist, and ultimately at some point in the process things were hand coded by a dev team.
It's easier now for example to build flat web pages for things like resturants using wordpress or drupal. But complex applications, take time, technical skill, expertise, and team work.
I am from NC, and when searching for jobs I see a lot in DC area and Northern Virginia areas. Especially in the computer field, I only have an associate degree and three certificates, but many of the jobs including PC support offer jobs that doesn't require a bachelor's degree. I am wondering does DC really have a good employment rate?
Your question is two-fold: whether there are really a lot of jobs in DC, and whether your lack of Bachelor's degree will negatively impact your job search.
The answer to the first question is yes, especially in computer field. This area is sometimes called' The Silicon Valley of the East' due to the amount of IT companies concentrated in this area. Almost all the big names have a presence here, Google, Apple, Oracle, Microsoft, etc. Then there's the consulting / federal contracting firms, small to giant sizes.
The answer to your second question is 'maybe'. You can definitely find a lot of jobs with only an Associate degree, but they will be mostly low level IT jobs such as PC Support and the like. If you have any aspiration at all to improve your career, then you definitely need to seriously consider upgrading your degree to Bachelor's degree. Most companies here have generous tuition reimbursement benefit for their full time employees, typically starts at $5000 per year. Get a job that offers it and take full advantage of that benefit.
The big name consulting firms around here would require Bachelor's degree in nearly all their IT positions, regardless of whether or not it's required in their contract with the government. This is because they have to think long term. The immediate contract for which they're hiring may not require Bachelor's degree but they want to make sure whomever they hire is as marketable as possible, for they don't know what the next contract's requirement might be, and they don't want to waste money carrying un-marketable resource on their bench.
Having a few certs myself, and being a "low evel" Support Tech, I can tell you there is plenty of work to be had. I make just under 70k and have to say I'm pretty happy with that. I own a house in the District and have a pretty good life. I can pick and choose my work as I see fit.
You have to consider what you want from life. You can move as far ahead in this field here as you want if you put in the time and effort. Me, this is my second "career", so its not my calling, I'm jut comfortable with it. If you decide to come here and are driven and play well with others, you'll be just fine, no matter what you choose to do. Best of luck.
With that being said, there are more configurable software solutions where an analyst can build something for a customer without the need for an engineer. But even then these are more for simple business use cases. This is not so much autocoding, since such a thing does not exist, and ultimately at some point in the process things were hand coded by a dev team.
It's easier now for example to build flat web pages for things like resturants using wordpress or drupal. But complex applications, take time, technical skill, expertise, and team work.
It's not AI that IT professionals need to worry about taking jobs. It's HB1 visa's and outsourcing to foreign countries where people have crappy BA's from their home country and ask for 50% less than American born and taught IT professionals. There are countless articles out there on outsourcing. There truly is a race to the bottom. Let the lowest salary win!
Your best protection is to make sure you don't have a heavy debt load (impossible if you want to get a degree) and be free to job hop if necessary. Companies are asking why do they have to pay you 70k when they can pay someone in India 45k and not have to deal with all the benefits that American citizens are used to.
The safest places to work aren't the hip corporations like Google, Verizon, or Yahoo. They have huge personnel pressures and outsourcing looks particularly good to them. The safe places are government jobs that require natural born citizens for security clearances and small to medium firms that don't have the employee expense pressure or the capital to benefit from outsourcing contracts.
I've been in IT for 20 years. Outsourcing is happening at my job. We just laid off about 300 people. Our entire tier 1 and tier 2 support org was replaced with 300 people working in India. I haven't been replaced, but I have a master's degree, make a 6-figure salary, and a high level engineer. So, I'm not sure if that's the reason I wasn't in the first or second round of layoffs. I hope I don't look too expensive to them. lol It's funny and sad that now, age and a high salary can put a target on your back.
There are jobs, but don't expect to make a lot of money unless you have skills that can't be outsourced or replaced by someone who can put downward pressure on the compensation. Basically anything that can be done remotely, i.e., by someone in another country, don't expect much in the way of career advancement. This includes accounting, math, teaching, etc.
I thought about becoming an online associate professor. Perhaps teaching unix 101 or something. But even that can be outsourced to another country.
It's not AI that IT professionals need to worry about taking jobs. It's HB1 visa's and outsourcing to foreign countries where people have crappy BA's from their home country and ask for 50% less than American born and taught IT professionals. There are countless articles out there on outsourcing. There truly is a race to the bottom. Let the lowest salary win!
Your best protection is to make sure you don't have a heavy debt load (impossible if you want to get a degree) and be free to job hop if necessary. Companies are asking why do they have to pay you 70k when they can pay someone in India 45k and not have to deal with all the benefits that American citizens are used to.
The safest places to work aren't the hip corporations like Google, Verizon, or Yahoo. They have huge personnel pressures and outsourcing looks particularly good to them. The safe places are government jobs that require natural born citizens for security clearances and small to medium firms that don't have the employee expense pressure or the capital to benefit from outsourcing contracts.
I've been in IT for 20 years. Outsourcing is happening at my job. We just laid off about 300 people. Our entire tier 1 and tier 2 support org was replaced with 300 people working in India. I haven't been replaced, but I have a master's degree, make a 6-figure salary, and a high level engineer. So, I'm not sure if that's the reason I wasn't in the first or second round of layoffs. I hope I don't look too expensive to them. lol It's funny and sad that now, age and a high salary can put a target on your back.
There are jobs, but don't expect to make a lot of money unless you have skills that can't be outsourced or replaced by someone who can put downward pressure on the compensation. Basically anything that can be done remotely, i.e., by someone in another country, don't expect much in the way of career advancement. This includes accounting, math, teaching, etc.
I thought about becoming an online associate professor. Perhaps teaching unix 101 or something. But even that can be outsourced to another country.
I am pretty safe then based on what you just wrote.
Also in general from what I have heard, many places generally do not like getting rid of senior engineers, and this outsourcing thing has happened before only with companies to get burned for letting them go. They don't mind laying off support staff for outsourcing, but senior engineers and analysts they have found they are not so easily replaced by either outsourcing or H1Bs. So the usual practice is to outsource the support, but keep the core engineering team, especially those in senior positions. Again in a place like DC where things are a bit more "thick" in terms of a job market, the risks of outsourcing are considerably less. It's in places with smaller job markets where the risks are far higher. Your job may get outsourced here, but there is usually another one around the corner. That may not be the case with a place in Iowa. The entire thought an engineer could live anywhere is dead, living outside of Boston, NYC, DC, Seattle, SF, etc now carries significant risks. While you may be able to find a job, you may not be able to find your next two or three jobs down the line. Many people do not think like this though, their job get's outsourced, and they find themselves unemployed and stuck owning a house in an area without a sufficiently thick job market for engineering.
The outsourcing thing though has been around since the early 2000s, it has run it's course a few times, only with companies coming back to domestic talent for some roles as outsourcing did not work for them.
Last edited by DistrictSonic; 05-10-2015 at 10:15 AM..
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lol, thanks for the laugh. What you're dreaming of won't happen for quite a while. Machines are nowhere close to coding sophisticated software on their own based on business requirements hashed out in meetings with clients and clients ever changing requirements throughout a project.
