$89 for a drivers license??!!! Are you kidding me?

[TrueTimbers]

Originally Posted by PS90

Well, good to hear that your income tax comment was sarcastic.

The rest of your post is liberalism in a nutshell. Support for government spending on every little pet project that results in waste and tax increases.

And, BTW, a poster named "509" has posted many citations on this forum backing-up the fact that Eastern Washington does not rely on Western Washington for support. I've never seen anything that proves that the ferry system is self-supporting. So that analogy is apples to oranges.

Tell me one nation that does not have "liberalism" ie.. A system that spreads wealth for the greater good of society?

I can not think of one modern nation, not one civil nation in the history of mankind that did not redistribute wealth to some degree.

So, I guess we should unplug your subsidized internet, and might as well close your post office, maybe you can write a letter and get some guy on a horse to deliver it.. ... No wait.. The pony express was subsidized!!

Please tell me what society in history did not redistribute?

I call bs... On you labeling redistribution as liberalism. It is the basis of a sound society. I do not get the mindset, when I think through the elimination of all government and all tax, I come up with the wild west at best.. But more like Somali, or Afghanistan.


Sure we can weigh the cost benefit of ferries and charge yuppies more while subsidizing commerce that has a greater benifit to society at large.. I am open to that discussion. Matter of fact I am a huge supporter of income/net wealth taxation. Just as countries such as Finland do.

[PS90]

Originally Posted by TrueTimbers

Tell me one nation that does not have "liberalism" ie.. A system that spreads wealth for the greater good of society?

I can not think of one modern nation, not one civil nation in the history of mankind that did not redistribute wealth to some degree.

So, I guess we should unplug your subsidized internet, and might as well close your post office, maybe you can write a letter and get some guy on a horse to deliver it.. ... No wait.. The pony express was subsidized!!

Please tell me what society in history did not redistribute?

I call bs... On you labeling redistribution as liberalism. It is the basis of a sound society. Best grow up and think through the elimination of all government and all tax.

Or is it you just want to eliminate those that do not benifit you directly.. ?? Hmmm.

(Sorry, this subject is at the crux of it for me.. )

Sure we can weigh the cost benefit of ferries and charge yuppies more while subsidizing commerce that has a greater benifit to society at large.. I am open to that discussion. Matter of fact I am a huge supporter of income/net wealth taxation. Just as countries such as Finland do.

I think this argument is well beyond the scope of this thread about Driver's License fees.

I will say that you are taking a lot of liberties with my comments if you think that I am for the elimination of all government and all taxes. Subsidizing a wasteful ferry system - that benefits the few, and supporting the post office - that benefits almost everyone - are again apples to oranges.

It's easier to think of people like me (on the other side of opinion) as "crazies" who just want complete anarchy though, isn't it?

[Ruth4Truth]

Originally Posted by PS90

Well, considering the extremely low percentage of Washingtonians that routinely use that antiquated money pit that is the ferry system, I think few people would agree with you here.

How else do you expect people to commute to work, if they live on the islands or the Olympic Peninsula? There is no other system than the "antiquated" system. How do you expect people who live in the San Juans to get to a hospital or to specialized medical care? Ferries are the only option. Other countries like Norway don't consider their national-highway-system ferries to be an antiquated system. It's the only practical solution in certain types of environments.

[TrueTimbers]

Originally Posted by PS90

I think this argument is well beyond the scope of this thread about Driver's License fees.

I will say that you are taking a lot of liberties with my comments if you think that I am for the elimination of all government and all taxes. Subsidizing a wasteful ferry system - that benefits the few, and supporting the post office - that benefits almost everyone - are again apples to oranges.

It's easier to think of people like me (on the other side of opinion) as "crazies" who just want complete anarchy though, isn't it?

So you just want to eliminate what does not benifit you directly?

Thats not conservitism that's just selfish.

So I demand I do not pay federal tax on my communication bill.. (Guess what, eastern Washington will be back to the stone age before you can blink.. It is the subsidies from western Washington and the charter of the USA that brings see I see to rural areas.. Yes?

Tell me what is different with the ferry?

[NewbiePoster]

Originally Posted by PS90

I think this argument is well beyond the scope of this thread about Driver's License fees.

I will say that you are taking a lot of liberties with my comments if you think that I am for the elimination of all government and all taxes. Subsidizing a wasteful ferry system - that benefits the few, and supporting the post office - that benefits almost everyone - are again apples to oranges.

It's easier to think of people like me (on the other side of opinion) as "crazies" who just want complete anarchy though, isn't it?

Dude, face it--Western Washington is a marine environment. The only way to deal with travel through that environment is by ferries. Unless you can figure out a way to engineer some extremely long bridges. NYC has ferries, and nobody calls them "antiquated", or complains about taxes supporting the service. If you don't want to support a state ferry system, live in a state that doesn't have one.

[PS90]

Originally Posted by TrueTimbers

So you just want to eliminate what does not benifit you directly?

Thats not conservitism that's just selfish.

So I demand I do not pay federal tax on my communication bill.. (Guess what, eastern Washington will be back to the stone age before you can blink.. It is the subsidies from western Washington and the charter of the USA that brings see I see to rural areas.. Yes?

Tell me what is different with the ferry?

Call it whatever you want, but the short answer is that I don't like paying tax money for government projects that only benefit a few people at the expense of many who don't use it. And ferries most certainly fit that category.

And what is with the Eastern Washington thing? I didn't post anything about how much Western WA relies on Eastern WA (which they do for agriculture, hydropower, etc), but yet you keep going on about it. My comment was about the ferry system, nothing more.

[PS90]

Originally Posted by Ruth4Truth

How else do you expect people to commute to work, if they live on the islands or the Olympic Peninsula? There is no other system than the "antiquated" system. How do you expect people who live in the San Juans to get to a hospital or to specialized medical care? Ferries are the only option. Other countries like Norway don't consider their national-highway-system ferries to be an antiquated system. It's the only practical solution in certain types of environments.

No one forced you to live there - a simple pay-for-use system would be fair for everyone.

[TrueTimbers]

Originally Posted by PS90

Call it whatever you want, but the short answer is that I don't like paying tax money for government projects that only benefit a few people at the expense of many who don't use it. And ferries most certainly fit that category.

And what is with the Eastern Washington thing? I didn't post anything about how much Western WA relies on Eastern WA (which they do for agriculture, hydropower, etc), but yet you keep going on about it. My comment was about the ferry system, nothing more.

You are east of the cascades, yes?
Plus you frequently cheerlead for eastern Washington..
(Don't get me wrong, us on the OP share many of the rural plights eastern Washington does.). Heck what at least 50% of the rural population is in poverty yes?

Just a point or reference to give counter perspective, nothing against it that's.for sure.

[fishbrains]

Originally Posted by PS90

No one forced you to live there - a simple pay-for-use system would be fair for everyone.

Yet anybody who has chosen to live in the Puget Sound area did so when ferries (and all other mass transit) were subsidized. So removing those subsidies is changing the conditions that they expected.

Very little in our society is pay for use, and we benefit from this. As another poster mentioned, societies that avoid some level of common social services look much like Somalia.

A true pay for use transit system would have tolls everywhere. Do you really want a toll booth at the end of your street?

[texdav]

All this does nothing but confirm nothing is free. Think before you ask or approve of any increased spending.