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Joe, you disparage numeric thresholds as arbitrary yet your continual use of avocados et al to define climate is actually just another equally arbitrary threshold.
Why? - if a climate can't grow tomatoes or melons in summer, and doesn't have an orange bush in the back yard, do you really think they're the same climate to places that do?
The OP talks of cool summers/mild winters as though they have a single meaning, and represent the same experience, but they don't - my version of mild winter means insects and bees buzzing all day, and potatoes and lettuces out of the garden. My version of cool summer means comfortable swimming for 4 months, and soil moisture deficits even with an average rainfall of an inch a week.
I suspect Bergen's version is somewhat difference.
Why? - if a climate can't grow tomatoes or melons in summer, and doesn't have an orange bush in the back yard, do you really think they're similar climates to places that do?
An avocado is just an isotherm disguised as an angiosperm.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe90
The OP talks of cool summers/mild winters as though they have a single meaning, and represent the same experience, but they don't - my version of mild winter means insects and bees buzzing all day, and potatoes and lettuces out of the garden. My version of cool summer means comfortable swimming for 4 months, and soil moisture deficits even with an average rainfall of an inch a week.
I suspect Bergen's version is somewhat difference.
I didn't see the OP ever say Bergen and Motueka would have the same experience. Even within a single category there's going to be a spectrum of experiences.
An avocado is just an isotherm disguised as an angiosperm.
I didn't see the OP ever say Bergen and Motueka would have the same experience. Even within a single category there's going to be a spectrum of experiences.
An avocado requires a minimum specific climatic requirement during winter, a melon requires one during summer- I don't see a climate that can provide conditions for either, as being similar to a climate that provides conditions for both.
The OP isn't using a logic, only subjectivity -therefore it's about the experience of climate. If the experience of climate isn't the same, and the classification doesn't have any real world applications, what's the point of having a category? -to group climates that may, or may not be the same? ,and from which nothing meaningful can be gained?
Would you want to your children to be taught that Canberra is basically the same climate as Bergen?
Why? - if a climate can't grow tomatoes or melons in summer, and doesn't have an orange bush in the back yard, do you really think they're the same climate to places that do?
The OP talks of cool summers/mild winters as though they have a single meaning, and represent the same experience, but they don't - my version of mild winter means insects and bees buzzing all day, and potatoes and lettuces out of the garden. My version of cool summer means comfortable swimming for 4 months, and soil moisture deficits even with an average rainfall of an inch a week.
I suspect Bergen's version is somewhat difference.
I would try to set a threshold that separates Cfb climates that are warm enough to support evergreen broadleaf forests and year-round growth from the cooler climates that support deciduous and conifer forests and/or do not show significant winter growth.
I would try to set a threshold that separates Cfb climates that are warm enough to support evergreen broadleaf forests and year-round growth from the cooler climates that support deciduous and conifer forests and/or do not show significant winter growth.
Linking classifications to the natural world makes much mores sense - people can debate until the cows come home, but nature already organises itself on the basis of climate differences/similarities.
Linking classifications to the natural world makes much mores sense - people can debate until the cows come home, but nature already organises itself on the basis of climate differences/similarities.
So what thresholds would you chose? To me a climate like Knysna is quite different from that of London because the former is warm enough for broadleaf evergreen forests to grow. Some broadleaf evergreens like holly and ivy would grow naturally in the London but the forests would be dominated by deciduous trees as the winter is too cold.
So what thresholds would you chose? To me a climate like Knysna is quite different from that of London because the former is warm enough for broadleaf evergreen forests to grow. Some broadleaf evergreens like holly and ivy would grow naturally in the London but the forests would be dominated by deciduous trees as the winter is too cold.
It's hard to say. Knysna has properties that aren't typical to Cfb, like the relatively even distribution of sunshine, and having the lowest rainfall during winter. It is regarded as Cfb, but I'd regard it as a generic subtropical environment/climate
I guess an index based on the number of introduced species that could thrive, or even become invasive, would be best -better to view them in a spectrum in my opinion though, as both climates have degrees of being able to support growth in the coldest months.
It's hard to say. Knysna has properties that aren't typical to Cfb, like the relatively even distribution of sunshine, and having the lowest rainfall during winter. It is regarded as Cfb, but I'd regard it as a generic subtropical environment/climate
I guess an index based on the number of introduced species that could thrive, or even become invasive, would be best -better to view them in a spectrum in my opinion though, as both climates have degrees of being able to support growth in the coldest months.
I don't know how much stock I would put into those data for Knysna on Wikipedia. The text says the rainiest time of year is June to August which makes sense given the location. I found these data which seem more plausible:
An avocado requires a minimum specific climatic requirement during winter, a melon requires one during summer- I don't see a climate that can provide conditions for either, as being similar to a climate that provides conditions for both.
The OP isn't using a logic, only subjectivity -therefore it's about the experience of climate. If the experience of climate isn't the same, and the classification doesn't have any real world applications, what's the point of having a category? -to group climates that may, or may not be the same? ,and from which nothing meaningful can be gained?
Would you want to your children to be taught that Canberra is basically the same climate as Bergen?
Similar means "resembling without being identical" (check here if you do not believe me). That is not "basically the same".
I don't recall seeing any bees when I was in NZ in June. There was a lot of this.
And a fair bit of this.
Beautiful country! I was probably too busy looking at the scenery to notice the bees.
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