Are palms required for a subtropical climate? (winters, heat, mild)
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Airport stations are still the best way to compare different cities though because they have the highest-quality measurements and the longest period of record. There are limitations are when you arrive in places that are severely microclimatized--but in such places those limitations apply to any site, not just airports.
They may be best to compare cities, but my point has never been that they aren't. The point has always been that they don't represent urban heat islands accurately, regardless of how good they are for other purposes.
This is the dumbest thing I have seen on this forum. This joke of a record low threshold means that zero current subtropical climates will fit in, as even borderline tropical Bermuda has a record low of 6.3ºC [43.3ºF]. In addition, this threshold excludes many undisputed tropical climates, such as Kolkata, India; Dhaka, Bangladesh; Nouakchott, Mauritania and Jeddah, Saudi Arabia from being tropical, even subtropical. Are they temperate like London and Paris? Sure, the last two climates are desert, but in temperature regime, they are undeniably tropical- its just their lack of precipitation.
Most absurdly, this poster considers Port Velho, Brazil; not subtropical, nor tropical. What the hell?
Just look at this climate table, and try to convince anyone that this climate is not tropical nor subtropical with the coldest month being a "freezing" 25.45ºC [77.81ºF]. Attachment 236140
I guarantee you there are palms growing in Fayetteville, if not windmill palms, needle palms and the native saw or dwarf palmetto. Palmetto species are native to parts of Arkansas. No palm tree species is native to British Columbia.
Yea I agree his statement is a bit laughable. The reality is that hardy palms can grown in places as far north as Scandinavia. Of course they are not native to northern climates.
No palms in Fayetteville, AR as far as I know, but it’s right in the middle of the worlds biggest contiguous humid subtropical zone.
On the flip side, there’s palm trees on Vancouver Island, but it has a very cool oceanic climate in the areas where palms can grow.
People who live in continental climates like myself are probably less likely to have a strict definition of subtropical because of how they compare to our own climates. It’s -10C most winter mornings in Southern Ontario, sometimes -20. Cities like Washington feel downright balmy in comparison. I visited NYC in March before and was in a t shirt and jeans on sunny days, meanwhile there was still snow on the ground at home.
I believe there’s an annual golf tournament in Shanghai held in November, you wouldn’t dream of playing golf here unless you like slinging mud around in 4C weather.
This is just my perspective though.
That's not an excuse to call Toledo a subtropical climate.
That's not an excuse to call Toledo a subtropical climate.
Toledo is a lake moderated Cfa/Dfa borderline, if it wasn’t for the Lake Erie it would be pure Dfa! But in -3°C(26.6°F) isotherm, Toledo is inside Cfa 0.9°F with an average of 27.5°F in January! I don’t even inow what to call Toledo know!
Montgomery AL is probably the quintessential humid subtropical climate but it can't grow CIDP's.
In North America, the cultivation of other subtropical plants such as palmettos and magnolias definitely works better. Even in DC (the northern edge of the Koppen subtropical zone) you still have many mature southern magnolias.
The quintessential subtropical would be Auburn, AL, yep no CIPDs. Average 45.5°F(7.5°C) coldest month, exact middle of -3°C(26.6°F) boundary of continental and 18°C(64.4°F) boundary to tropical. This is how I divide it 26.6-45.5°F pre-continental, 45.5-64.4°F pre-tropical for temperate climates. Now for Cfa(humid-subtropical), 36.05°F(middle of 26.6-45.5°F)-54.95°F(middle of 45.5-64.4°F) is the quintessential humid-subtropical average coldest month range, it takes places from DC to Northern Florida. This place’s receive low snowfall and some regular frosts, but its winters are mild and subtropical plants grow very well in most places in that range. Hot and humid summers, typical of the climate.
26.6-36.05°F average coldest month is the colder winter side, where many continental characteristics show up, snowfall is common, frost happen often in winter(though as long as mot continental in snowpack limitations). This includes the controversial cities from DC up to Coastal Massachusetts, and from Northern Tennessee to 1/2 of Indiana and Illinois(just a few examples). This places includes hot and humid summers like all humid-subtropical places.
54.95-64.4°F average coldest month is the warmer side, it start to show tropical characteristics, by growing exotic plants and many tropical fruits, frost becomes rare only happening very few times a year or not every year and snowfall becomes unheard of only happening in very rare events. This would include from Northern Florida, parts of Louisiana, to Southern Texas, and in Florida from around Ocala down to the tropical boundaries.
DC with an average of 37.5°F coldest month is part of the quintessential humid-subtropical range still, but it is almost in the colder winter part, 36.05-45.5°F is the pre-continental quintessential humid-subtropical, and 45.5-54.95°F average coldest month the pre-tropical quintessential humid-subtropical, 26.6-45.5°F is the full pre-continental, 45.5-64.4°F the whole pre-tropical. How likes my idea of just going deeper in classification rather than changing climate classification? This helps deeper understand rather than arguments! A humid-subtropical climate or any temperate climate with average coldest month 26.6-36.05°F would obviously have a continental feel, and 54.95-64.4°F a tropical feel, 36.05-54.95°F is just pure in the climate feel, it would be pure. I am not saying that below 36.05°F average coldest month should be continental nor 54.95°F or above tropical, not at all. 26.6-64.4°F are the true thresholds and I still agree with them, but the other thresholds I am giving are to have a different view within each climate type.
Sabal palms don't require much heat, they are just slow growing in most climates except for climates where that can grow all year.
But if they can grow somewhere it means that place has mild winters.
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