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Unread 12-25-2007, 02:44 PM
 
132 posts
Reputation: 34
Default ""NAILING"" down a builder

Nailing down a builder to costs, is like going fishing and trying to get a night-crawler on a hook.....You struggle and struggle, and end up sticking yourself....Whose to blame... the night-crawler or yourself????

So, we were over here in Hendersonville, looking at new construction....We kind of liked the Donald Gardener style house designs, so we saw an ad for one on the the east side of Hendersonville.....We went over there, and this guy had this new construction going on....[get this]...under a high power line.....yah!!!! one of the 130,000 volt jobs.....right!!!!!
Well!!! We go in, and immediately can see it is NOT a Donald Gardener design....I said: Come on.....this isn't one of his designs.....he says, he changed it!!!! He bought a design once, and has modified it...Yah!!!!right!!!! To the point it no longer looks like a Donald Gardener home....So he's was asking $200/sft or something for the house.....
I told hime I didn't like this house, and asked 'if' he would consoider building me one...he said yes....and we started talking details.....he said he'd work on a cost plus.....first he said 18%.....I said come on.....He then said 15%....
I said......OK!!!!! NOW!!!!
How much would you charge me to build this exact same house on my lot??????
ALL OF A SUDDEN, WERE DOWN TO $90/SFT.....
I said....how'd you suddenly get it so low??? He said...he does most of the work himself.....I said: How much do you charge yourself off for, "IF" you do most of the work yourself???
He said....If I do painting...I charge $25/hr....If I do cabinet work, I charge $45/hr.....


WE thanked him, and walked out there """TOTALLY"" bewildered!!!!

>>>>>"""WELCOME TO THE BAZAAR WORLD OF BUILDERS""""
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Unread 12-25-2007, 03:04 PM
 
132 posts
Reputation: 34
Reply to; andybuildz
I think it would behove you to familize yourself, with the NAHB....
They have wonderfull information, which apparently you are not familar with....
On one of their webpages, it gives a total breakdown of %, and $ costs to build a house, for each of the types of construction work, etc....
ALSO ON THEIR WEBPAGE....IT GIVES THE OVERHEAD COST INVOLVED, INCLUDING COMMISIONS PAID OUT TO VARIOUS ENTITITIES......
IT'S APPALLING!!! From memory...it's about 35% of the cost of the house.....

>>>YOU ARE ENTIRELY CORRECT!!!<<<....THE BUILDER CAN ASK ANYTHING HE WANTS.....>>>>>>>>""""UNTIL THE BANK STEPS ON HIS TOES""<<<<

Builders have had their hay-day, for much to long....
They are about to get caught on the hook of the big bad banker!!!!

Everybody answers to somebody!!!!
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Unread 12-25-2007, 03:51 PM
 
Location: Huntington, NY
652 posts, read 1,406,580 times
Reputation: 215
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crazy G View Post
Reply to; andybuildz
I think it would behove you to familize yourself, with the NAHB....
They have wonderfull information, which apparently you are not familar with....
I've been a member of NAHB as well as NARI but they really don't do much for me at this point so I save my dues for other things although I still keep up with their monthly's.

As you've come to realize...it matters not what they say...does it now?
Try and use those figures and you'll go nuts. You think you're gonna mix and match all the different styles and techniques and come up with an accurate number? I doubt it. And how often are we talking union guys..or illegals..or starving builders or...There's far to many variables to make sense of any of those numbers and stay accurate.
All those numbers can do is "give you an idea" and thats about it. I think you've just found that out for yourself.

Also..you need to take into acct site loction among a million other variables.

What you need to do if you're having something built for you...or something added on to an existing structure is pay a reputable archy to design something within the budget you set. Take those plans to people you trust and get prices. Start small and test the waters before jumping all the way in b/c you can do it that way and I always suggest that to my customers.
Start with something small...see how that goes...if all is well then go onto phase two. Its easier to live that way too during the construction or waiting for the completion of construction or whatever the case may be.
Its all about patience and common sense. Take it slowly.
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Unread 12-25-2007, 06:40 PM
 
132 posts
Reputation: 34
Andy Boy: your obviously NOT familiar with the mountain people of NC....

Words cannot describe how they live, breath, and act.....

They're just mountain people boy....and you had better acknowledge that, otherwise, you're going to be having some problems....NOT THEM!!!!
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Unread 12-25-2007, 07:39 PM
 
Location: Huntington, NY
652 posts, read 1,406,580 times
Reputation: 215
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crazy G View Post
Andy Boy: your obviously NOT familiar with the mountain people of NC....

Words cannot describe how they live, breath, and act.....

They're just mountain people boy....and you had better acknowledge that, otherwise, you're going to be having some problems....NOT THEM!!!!
Crazy...I've lived in the hills of Nelson county, virginia for quite a while and people don't get anymore country or hills than that. Matter of fact the people where I lived you could hardly understand when they spoke and that wasn't just me...anyone outside of Nelson County said the exact same thing...but guess what...even being from NY..it made no never mind cause they ALL became my friends eventually...they even had me workin' on the same building crews with them.
Actully...that was pretty much when I first started building.
That too was the first time I ever shot a shotgun...funny story right there maybe I'll tell ya one day...lol.

I never worry about makin' friends anywhere I go cause I don't consider myself from anywhere in particular. I was brought up in the most diverse neighborhoods in the world and to me...its all the same...just different accents sizes and shapes. We all know good from bad and who is polite and respectful and who isn't.
Sometimes it just takes a bit to get to really know one another and I'll tell ya what Crazy...I'm thinking we're miscommunicating here because we're not talking face to face and I see that happen all to often on the puter.

Anyway...I'll just let it go at that..
you have a great rest of your Christmas bro
Be well
andy
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Unread 12-27-2007, 09:05 AM
 
Location: Marshall, NC
442 posts, read 834,877 times
Reputation: 226
Well said, Andy.
We just got our first quote back from a local builder - $193 sq. ft. - which is way more that we want to spend - hoping to keep it at $150 sq. ft. But to be honest - we did not give him a complete bill of materials - for example he quoted us an 20k fireplace with blowers and doors to distribute heat - we don't need that - and truly I want to see my fire - I don't want it hidden behind glass doors - so we are working to refine our materials - yeah I would love to use Lamarite shingles that look like slate and have a 30 yr warranty - but it's 42k - so I will find architectural shingles that will create a great look -for about $7200k. If what I'm hearing on the forum is correct - then I know there are builders out there who our project will appeal to - we're not building a million dollar home - just a cottage - but with quality features. Andy - is cost plus 15% reasonable or should we try for 12%? thanks
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Unread 12-27-2007, 06:26 PM
 
132 posts
Reputation: 34
Default Builders in Hendersonville

We live in a Pete Greene built house...He's and upscale local developer here in Hendersonville, whose been around for a couple of decades....
Any way, the story goes, he sold off most of his real estate 'lot' holdings to pay for slow going developments, over in Carriage Park ...

Things, ARE REALLY SLOWING DOWN, INCERTAIN PRICE RANGES....

Like over in Solomons Cove, many houses over there in $400-500K range have been sitting for 6 mos or more....

>>>>HOLD YOUR BREATH....in 6 mos or so, your going to be able to buy those houses @ 25-30 discount....

THESE BOYS ARE GOING TO """"PANIC""" IN 6-9 MOS....
============================

A glass Heatilator door for a 42" fire place cost approx $165 @ Lowes....they are nice to have!!!!

The question for the day is: WHY WOULD YOU WANT TO BUILD A HOUSE WHEN THERE ARE SO VERY, VERY MANY TO CHOOSE FROM....
YOU'RE STUPID...JUST STUPID, TO GO TO BED WITH THESE GUYS!!!!

Last edited by Crazy G; 12-27-2007 at 06:30 PM.. Reason: missed an item;
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Unread 12-27-2007, 06:46 PM
 
132 posts
Reputation: 34
Default Andy why would you say this?..pay a reputable archy to design something within the budget you set

You don't need an archy...
WHAT THE HECK ARE TO TALKING ABOUT????

With """all""" the building plans out there floating on the internet, I can't believe you would say that!!!!

""YOU"" have lost 3 notches on my esteeme meter!!!

These costs are part of that 35% """"OVERHEAD EXPENSE I REFERRED TO"""

Architechs take a PerCentage of the building cost.....

>>>>>>"""A GOOD DESIGN WILL SAVE YOU MONEY...BUT....A GOOD DESIGN DOESN'T HAVE TO COST YOU MONEY""<<<

Last edited by Crazy G; 12-27-2007 at 06:58 PM.. Reason: clarification
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Unread 12-27-2007, 07:04 PM
 
Location: Huntington, NY
652 posts, read 1,406,580 times
Reputation: 215
Quote:
Originally Posted by Loves mountains View Post
Well said, Andy.
We just got our first quote back from a local builder - $193 sq. ft. - which is way more that we want to spend - hoping to keep it at $150 sq. ft. But to be honest - we did not give him a complete bill of materials - for example he quoted us an 20k fireplace with blowers and doors to distribute heat - we don't need that - and truly I want to see my fire - I don't want it hidden behind glass doors - so we are working to refine our materials - yeah I would love to use Lamarite shingles that look like slate and have a 30 yr warranty - but it's 42k - so I will find architectural shingles that will create a great look -for about $7200k. If what I'm hearing on the forum is correct - then I know there are builders out there who our project will appeal to - we're not building a million dollar home - just a cottage - but with quality features. Andy - is cost plus 15% reasonable or should we try for 12%? thanks
Far as glass doors and blowers go. I don't know around there but here the code is such that new construction has to have glass doors on any new fireplace. I'm guessing it's not the same down there but you might check on that. Mainly for insurance purposes!
I agree with you. I HATE glass doors.
There's lots of options when it comes to blowers if you want one down the line. One is a tubular log holder with a built in fan that simply blows the heat from the heated tubes into the room. There's a lot of choices if you really want that but to me...for the most part, a fireplace isn't to heat a room. Wood stoves are. But there's tons of choices for whatever you want. I hear they have these new contraptions too...little plastic boxes on the wall with a dial. All ya have to do is set it and it turns heat on any time of the day...LOL.

Twenty grand for a fireplace is even steep here in the north east unless they see ya comin'! That sounds about double what it should cost. Must be b/c of the glass doors and heater...lol.

And $193(three)?? LOLOL Where'd he get that from?? LOL. Too funny.
Its WAY too hard to ever know if you're going to be paying cost plus 12 or 15 or 17%. There's too many factors you'll never really see.
Thats one of the reasons I say to go as basic as possible. Do the things that will alow you to move in comfortably and get the rest done later. If you're willing to deal with things that way. It's not terribly difficult...butthat may not be for you. I can understand that.
Let them put your basic 20 year roof on and change it later...if you want. You could even go right over the new roof...as long as it's pretty new. I wouldn't wait more than a year or so to cover it. It's nice to have it perfectly flat!

I'm sure there's plenty of local craftsman that would absolutly love the work and would charge you alot more fairly than a big builder.
Its nice to try and give things out to the locals if you're willing to take things on that way. Thats really up to you and what you're comfortable doing.

Sure is nice to find one or two local crafts people you trust and can work with besides the big builder man.

As for me...I'm hoping once I'm there I'll get a little timber framing under my belt with a small saw mill and take on some small projects for people.
Mix some timber framing projects with conventional building. Make things affordable for people like you and me. Its really a shame that people have to pay an arm and a leg for real craftsmanship. Makes no sense to me. When it's ALL about the money then what have we all become?
Good luck and any questions I can help you with just ask and I'd be more than happy to try and help.
Have a great new year!
andy

Last edited by andybuildz; 12-27-2007 at 07:08 PM.. Reason: cause I always wanted to be an editor : )
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Unread 12-27-2007, 07:30 PM
 
132 posts
Reputation: 34
>>""""if You Buy A Can Of Worms, At Least You Know What Your In For""<<<
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