Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
I'm not going to read through all ten pages of this, but will respond to the OPs original post.
There is legitimacy to what you are experiencing.
Its true that working conditions were better for the world war II generation, and for the baby boomers.
Pensions were common. Hours were more normal for many positions. People seemed to have better defined career paths and job security. A man could often raise a family, as the sole breadwinner, working a very blue collar job.
For reference, look up statistics on salary to housing expense ratios over time. These usually give a loose idea of relative quality of life as far as work and life balance is concerned.
The reasons for the decline are numerous.
1. The weakened political power of the labor class.
2. The exponentially increasing population and the resultant increased competition for everything (largely the over-arching reason behind many of the other causes).
3. Increased education costs combined with an increased need for advanced degrees to make a middle class income. Degree creep, in general, in a variety of professions. If you don't have the degree, you cant expect better working conditions and pay because you are competing with a very large pool of labor for positions that require less in the way of qualifications.
4. Globalization's effect on the local need for expertise. Before, experts had job security. Now, it can be sourced cheaper elsewhere in many instances.
5. The continued decline of american manufacturing and increase in the finance economy.
6. The continued growth of a very expensive government.
7. Unmitigated immigration undercutting the native labor pool, and driving down wages and the quality of working conditions
8. Increased business efficiency, in combination with the rising population. There are simply less jobs that there are people.
By and large, business has no reason to pay anyone a decent wage anymore, or to provide decent working conditions, unless you are in a very specific position that requires a relatively high level of expertise. There is simply always someone else willing and able to take your place for the same or lower wage.
What you are experiencing is the tangible effects of the decline of the American Middle Class, which is more evident to you because you are only one generation removed from a time when the middle class was largely healthy. By the time your kids are working, they wont know the difference. They will perceive it as always having been like this, and that finding a decent job is naturally a huge struggle. Hopefully, you will have enough experience to teach them to be the super competitive, analytical, and intelligent machines that they will need to be to out-compete the masses for one of the coveted postions in the future smaller middle class. Many of the old tried and true paths have dried up. In the future, it will take above average determination and analysis to forge a way to a higher quality of life.
I can understand the frustration of the OP. Welcome to the US of the late 20th and early 21st century where capitalism has become the economic system of this country and I believe that is the reason that this country is in the mess it is in financially. It is very clear that capitalism doesn't work well as the rich are allowed to exploit and take full advantage of those making less money. It is true unfortunately that these private companies only care about profits. Trust me, I used to work for one and I know what they do, particularly if it is a big company with lots of employees. Maybe we should all move to China?? That's where lots of companies are setting up. The US really sucks in terms of job stability because there is none. People in this country are forced to live to work. It is a rat race mentality here where they just work you to death while only giving you two weeks vacation. Good original post!! If somebody living outside the US asked me if they think they should move here, I would tell them no way, don't do it because the US sucks when it comes to job security. This is a nice country but the economic system sucks. That's the truth.
I can understand the frustration of the OP. Welcome to the US of the late 20th and early 21st century where capitalism has become the economic system of this country and I believe that is the reason that this country is in the mess it is in financially. It is very clear that capitalism doesn't work well as the rich are allowed to exploit and take full advantage of those making less money. It is true unfortunately that these private companies only care about profits. Trust me, I used to work for one and I know what they do, particularly if it is a big company with lots of employees. Maybe we should all move to China?? That's where lots of companies are setting up. The US really sucks in terms of job stability because there is none. People in this country are forced to live to work. It is a rat race mentality here where they just work you to death while only giving you two weeks vacation. Good original post!! If somebody living outside the US asked me if they think they should move here, I would tell them no way, don't do it because the US sucks when it comes to job security. This is a nice country but the economic system sucks. That's the truth.
I agree with you. However, capitalism is a must to an extent. We can't rely on socialism. That doesnt work at all.
I'm not going to read through all ten pages of this, but will respond to the OPs original post.
There is legitimacy to what you are experiencing.
Its true that working conditions were better for the world war II generation, and for the baby boomers.
Pensions were common. Hours were more normal for many positions. People seemed to have better defined career paths and job security. A man could often raise a family, as the sole breadwinner, working a very blue collar job.
For reference, look up statistics on salary to housing expense ratios over time. These usually give a loose idea of relative quality of life as far as work and life balance is concerned.
The reasons for the decline are numerous.
1. The weakened political power of the labor class.
2. The exponentially increasing population and the resultant increased competition for everything (largely the over-arching reason behind many of the other causes).
3. Increased education costs combined with an increased need for advanced degrees to make a middle class income. Degree creep, in general, in a variety of professions. If you don't have the degree, you cant expect better working conditions and pay because you are competing with a very large pool of labor for positions that require less in the way of qualifications.
4. Globalization's effect on the local need for expertise. Before, experts had job security. Now, it can be sourced cheaper elsewhere in many instances.
5. The continued decline of american manufacturing and increase in the finance economy.
6. The continued growth of a very expensive government.
7. Unmitigated immigration undercutting the native labor pool, and driving down wages and the quality of working conditions
8. Increased business efficiency, in combination with the rising population. There are simply less jobs that there are people.
By and large, business has no reason to pay anyone a decent wage anymore, or to provide decent working conditions, unless you are in a very specific position that requires a relatively high level of expertise. There is simply always someone else willing and able to take your place for the same or lower wage.
What you are experiencing is the tangible effects of the decline of the American Middle Class, which is more evident to you because you are only one generation removed from a time when the middle class was largely healthy. By the time your kids are working, they wont know the difference. They will perceive it as always having been like this, and that finding a decent job is naturally a huge struggle. Hopefully, you will have enough experience to teach them to be the super competitive, analytical, and intelligent machines that they will need to be to out-compete the masses for one of the coveted postions in the future smaller middle class. Many of the old tried and true paths have dried up. In the future, it will take above average determination and analysis to forge a way to a higher quality of life.
Huntsville is a nice area with relatively cheap housing. Some Californians would be shocked to learn what you can get for $150k.
In 1950 the average size of a new house was 948 sq. ft. whereas today's new house is two and a half times larger.
In 1950 the average new home had a one car garage. There was a reason for this, most families had just one car.
Properly laid out there is no reason an average family of four couldn't live comfortably in a 1,200 sq. ft. house with 1 1/2 baths. Each child does not need their own bathroom suite.
In Leave it to Beaver Wally and Beaver shared a bedroom. This was standard in the 50's as were bunk beds.
In 1950 we didn't have internet or cable television. We had black and white televisions with four channels in the bay area. If you visited aunt Sally in Rapid City you might have one or two channels and everything went off the air after the 10:00 PM news. Today people think these are necessities and think nothing of spending $100 to $200 a month for these two services.
These little costs add up. $150/month @5% = $124,843.26 in 30 years. $228,910.38 if saved over 40 years. That's a lot of money for television.
Get a good antennae and learn to live with three or four channels. Television is mostly garbage anyway.
As a nation we've forgotten how to save money. Many came to view credit as an asset. Speaking of credit in the 50's very, very few had credit cards. It was all cash and if you couldn't afford then you didn't get. Kind of like what it should be.
I have a nephew who purchased his very nice first home in a nice neighborhood a few months ago paying cash. His wife and he both worked living in a studio apartment driving one used car but living on her paycheck while banking all of his. They are both under 30 and now want to start a family with mom being a stay at home mom. With the house paid for he figures the cost of housing (he'll never know a mortgage payment) will actually be less than the studio apartment. He'll have property taxes, insurance and utilities which might total $400/month. They are going to get a new car but I bet they'll only get one and he will pay cash for it. Young couples should look at this way of planning.
When you look at our way of living we waste a lot of money.
I agree with you. However, capitalism is a must to an extent. We can't rely on socialism. That doesnt work at all.
A very broad attack on socialism. If we can consider capitalism and socialism/communism at the opposite ends of the economic spectrum, there is no society, save perhaps North Korea, which operates solely at one end of that spectrum. There are no pure communist states and no pure capitalist states. The USA has socialist measures in place, and a socialist state such as Sweden, for instance, operates with some degree of capitalism as part of its economy.
Usually, broad spectrum attack on one type of economic system or the other is purely political, as no society would function well as a pure system. In the USA, the huge population alone would make a purely capitalist state a disaster. People would starve to death. We all know about North Korea, and what a pure communist state looks like.
Some countries operate with a socialist bias in their economy very well. The Scandinavian countries have the highest degree of democracy on the planet. Also, the general QOL in those countries would counter any broad sweeping statement that socialism "doesn't work" very well.
The USA's GDP is testament to the success of capitalism in this country. There is no better country to become wealthy in. That is the gift of capitalism. In the Scandinavian countries, it would be much more difficult to become wealthy. However, the middle class has a much more secure existence in those countries. It is much harder to become destitute in Sweden than it is in the USA.
Each type of economy works in moderation. Either extreme end is a disaster. However, depending on who you are and what your goals are in life, one type of economy would work better for you than the other.
OP does have a point. It used to be you worked a 40 hour work week.
Shortly after I retired I decided to take a contracted position at an investment firm(that was my background).
I would arrive at 8am and many people would already be there, I would leave at 5pm and they were still there. This was the norm.
I was even asked to stay on full time, but I wasn't interested in that and certainly not after seeing how many hours were involved.
These were salaried workers so they weren't getting overtime. With the way the economy is it seems many workers today feel in order to keep their jobs they have to work 50 to 60 hour weeks.
I remember on one of the three day weekends they sent out an email saying the office was closing early, so go ahead and go home. Hardly anyone left...LOL...I did...most of these people were in their 20s and recent college graduates...so maybe they were trying to make themselves look better.... I don't know...but yes there has been a change in many companies where they expect you to work way over 40 hours.
Life is too short for that. And unless your leaving early every day I think coming to work prior to 8am is a bit much.
I couldn't have said it better myseld. I swear at my job these people have NO lives outside of work. I'm sorry but there is no job in the world I would be working 60-70 hours for. When you come in when you are supposed to and only stay 10 minutes or so past the time you are supposed to you get looked at. Sorry, when my boss tells me to go home early, I leave. Alot of the ones at my company are from out of state, so perhaps having no family, friends here, the job becomes your life. I'm also bias to as I haven't had a career yet, just a job to pay the bills until I finish graduate school. Even then though, my job will never be my life.
In 1950 the average size of a new house was 948 sq. ft. whereas today's new house is two and a half times larger.
In 1950 the average new home had a one car garage. There was a reason for this, most families had just one car.Indeed, the company also said that despite paying only half of what it once did, it continues to attract good applicants.
(etc.)
Thank you. When I see people whining about the decline of the middle class I'd love to have a time machine to send them back pre-decline when they have no microwave oven, no computer, smaller house with a window AC unit, phone on a cord, etc.
Expectations raise = middle class declines. It's all perspective.
No, you don't know the situation. Where there used to be 5 or 6 on a shift, there are now only 2 or 3. We have also been given extra job duties and responsibilities (and those postitions which have been cut, such as security, have been placed onto us without an increase in pay to compensate).
So can I assume you work 16 hours per day now? Are you paid hourly and if so aren't you compensated more for more work?
I'll never get when people say they do the work of three people but don't spend 24 hours/day at work, it doesn't make sense.
I'll never get when people say they do the work of three people but don't spend 24 hours/day at work, it doesn't make sense.
It's simple really, it's due to the underemployment America has been rife with - yeah they're "doing the work of 3 people" who prior to 2 of them being let go those 3 were only doing maybe 3-4 hours worth of actual work a day each.
This is also one of the reasons employers are finding they can get the same work done with less staff, leading to no new hires unless absolutely neccessary.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
