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Avg wages/salaries in 2000 - Fed $52k, Private $39k. Avg in 2008 - Fed $79k, private $50k. So the ratio went from 1.33 to 1.58. Interestingly, the worst of the increases took place under Bush, so not a Dem vs Rep thing.
Throw in benefits, and the numbers go even more in favor of Fed workers, growing from a $76k to $46k advantage in 2000, to a $120k to $60k advantage in 2008, due to lower health ins premiums and defined-benefit pensions.
Quite honestly, it's sickening. The government offers lifetime employment to the unemployable...at high wages and at taxpayer expense. My office is out-of-town, and I choose to stay in DC because I like it here, but we've had a terrible time hiring government contractors who decide they want to go commercial. They look good on paper - very smart, but are terrified of making decisions, waste time documenting procedures on how to hold conference calls, and walk into your office moaning about work/life balance if you book them on a flight that arrives back in DCA after 6pm. Worst employees ever.
Are these statistics off the basis of a certain job in the public/private sector or just a raw number for all jobs?
Usually jobs in the defense related field which is what most of the jobs around here are, you see $10-$20 pay increase in the private sector.
Does anyone know if there are tables available to the public that show comparisons by profession, location, education, and/or years of experience? For example, an accountant at KPMG vs. an accountant at a federal office at the entry-level, five years, ten years, etc. Or a physician in private practice vs. a physician at Walter Reed. Or a lawyer with ten years of experience at Random & Associates (with offices in NYC and Anytown, USA) and a lawyer with ten years of experience in a federal agency's legal department.
I've seen a lot of "feds are waaaay OVERPAID because I'm comparing an engineer to a Starbucks barista" and "feds are waaaay UNDERPAID because I'm comparing a tech guy I have to call three times to reset my password to a tech guy at Google." But I've not seen much of actual facts, even from the White House (or whatever office would keep this data...OPM? Labor and Statistics?).
I know your neighbor's cousin's best friend's sister-in-law has worked as a receptionist for the Department of Dimwits for three years, makes $125,000 but does nothing but update her Facebook status all day, and has never paid for a dentist or doctor's visit in her career....
Wow, there's a lot of butt-hurt whiners in this thread.
Feds, its time for us to suck it up. In the grand scheme of things, this is a small price to pay. Your step increases will continue to come and high performers will continue to be promoted. It may also take some of the wind out of the sails of a new congress seeking to impose even harsher actions against federal employees. The only thing I disagree with in this move is that it doesn't apply to military as well. Contrary to popular belief, there are thousands of civilians serving overseas in Afghanistan, Iraq, and other dangerous places. Conversely, most of the military is not serving in a war zone. To treat these two workforces separately doesn't convey the spirit of the freeze. If we're ever going to solve our budget issues we cannot continue to treat the military as a sacred cow.
For those that say the federal workforce is lazy and useless, please look at what the federal workforce actually encompasses. Our national labs, darpa, dod, nasa, intelligence communities, air traffic control, FBI, department of transportation and more. The Feds invented the atomic bomb and the Internet. They put a man on the moon There are many very smart people doing great things in space, in telecommunications, in weapons and other cutting edge stuff that influence your life in ways more subtle than perhaps the IRS or social security.
As for pay, the Feds make less for the jobs they do, period. An engineer for the government makes less than an engineer for a private company. Because the government tends to not employ burger flippers and lettuce pickets, the average pay overall for Feds will appear higher. But that's about as useful a comparison as wages in the health care field with the retail field.
I think the notion that Federal employees are overpaid is completely ignorant and its getting old. When I finished school I completed my Masters degree and I was eligible to make $80k in this area with my field (Computer Science), but the economy began to crumble and I needed the job security so the government became my choice, but I started at a little over $50k. Does that sound overpaid to you? Most people in my field are severely underrpaid in the government. Although at times my work is not very engaging, I do use the resources around me to better myself. I take training, practice new skills, and find ways to make myself a more effective and capable employee. That's what any competent employee would do. Unfortunately you have some who are incompetent, but trust me it is not limited to the feds. We have lazy people in this country just like we have hard working people. If people really think our jobs are so easy, and the pay is so great then why don't you apply for the same position I applied for and see how well you can do.
That is so very true. My son the programmer never considers government work because they can't pay him as much as contractors and private businesses.
Location: Huntersville/Charlotte, NC and Washington, DC
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Quote:
Originally Posted by need_more_light
So you're saying all federal workers are slouches? Blanket statement much? I guess ALL federal workers are no good just because some are no good. Just like how white, black, hispanic, asian, middle eastern, etc. people are bad because some of them are?
Why didn't those people that worked in the private sectors that got laid off get a government job in the first place since "fed workers can be slouches and get too keep their jobs and a raise every year and get outstanding benefits"? If fed jobs are so good, why didnt those people get the fed jobs in the first place?
B/c they are impossible to get w/o being former military or a current federal worker.
That is so very true. My son the programmer never considers government work because they can't pay him as much as contractors and private businesses.
Yes, the pay is definitely lower. There are some benefits that contractors don't get such as sick leave and also it being virtually impossible to lose your job via a layoff. Like anything it's a tradeoff, but contractors will get far better pay.
Avg wages/salaries in 2000 - Fed $52k, Private $39k. Avg in 2008 - Fed $79k, private $50k. So the ratio went from 1.33 to 1.58. Interestingly, the worst of the increases took place under Bush, so not a Dem vs Rep thing.
Throw in benefits, and the numbers go even more in favor of Fed workers, growing from a $76k to $46k advantage in 2000, to a $120k to $60k advantage in 2008, due to lower health ins premiums and defined-benefit pensions.
Quite honestly, it's sickening. The government offers lifetime employment to the unemployable...at high wages and at taxpayer expense. My office is out-of-town, and I choose to stay in DC because I like it here, but we've had a terrible time hiring government contractors who decide they want to go commercial. They look good on paper - very smart, but are terrified of making decisions, waste time documenting procedures on how to hold conference calls, and walk into your office moaning about work/life balance if you book them on a flight that arrives back in DCA after 6pm. Worst employees ever.
Indeed, Fed workers do have excellent benefits, including large amounts of sick leave that most contractors do not get (most don't get any sick leave separate from vacation time).
Complaining about a flight that arrives after 6 PM? Oh, the horror! I can't count the number of times I've had to travel on the weekend - including just 2 weeks ago, and my company's policy is that you can't even count travel time on the weekend as part of the hours in a pay period! Wow, those folks complaining about arriving after 6 PM don't know how good they have it!
B/c they are impossible to get w/o being former military or a current federal worker.
Not true. I got one and I am neither. I got it because they wanted the experience I had.
And I know that you used to work (or still do) at a credit union. We just hired two interns from the Navy Federal Credit Union. They didn't even *know* anyone. They just applied.
Indeed, Fed workers do have excellent benefits, including large amounts of sick leave that most contractors do not get (most don't get any sick leave separate from vacation time).
A federal worker will get 4 hours of sick leave and 4 hours of vacation per pay period for the first 3 years of employment. That is equivalent to 26 total days per year.
After 3 years of employment, the annual leave accrual goes to 6 hours per pay period, giving the employee a total of 32.5 days per year.
At the 15 year mark, the annual leave accrual jumps to 8 hours per pay period. Sick leave never changes.
The annual leave is VERY generous once you put your time in.
Most responsible federal workers hardly touch their sick leave because there is no disability insurance offered through the government. Not even a policy you can purchase through them. Every private company I worked for ALWAYS offered free Long Term Disability and elective Short Term Disability which I gladly paid into. After having cancer in my 30s which required several 3 week absences for treatment and a maternity leave, it was a good thing to have.
In the government, you get none of that. It's tough to watch someone going through chemo and needing to be off a few months. I guess the government feels that their leave package is generous enough that disability doesn't need to be offered. I disagree with that. If you are sickly or a have a family member who is and use your sick leave, you must pray that someone donates some leave to you or hope you've been there long enough that you've got 6 months banked.
There are no restrictions on bonuses and step upgrades.
To federal employees....Stop whining.
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