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Just saw in another post someone saying they were smarter than their managers, frustrated they hadn't moved up, etc.
Out of college I think I had the expectation that you got a degree you should get a nice job making like 40k-50k.
Not to say that doesn't happen but economy is diff today and having a few years in the work force realize you gotta work your way up, starting salaries unless you have a unique skill is like 30k-35k, your fortunate if you can get 40k.
. Started at a great company, very employee friendly, pay well, pay for you to go to school, month long sabatical after 3 years, just a great company to work for
Anyhow, I was brought on as an intern with basicaly a promise I would be hired if I didn't suck. Internship turned into a couple 3 month contract positions every time I got extended I got a raise but still no benefits and my main thing was we had a VC interested and I wanted to be an employee incase we went public as it would have been a huge payout for employees.
I started with anther intern who's job performance wasn't as good as mine, wasn't very professional but was patient with the whole process.
I got frustrated, started letting it affect my attitude, felt the company was stringing me along which to a point they were but you gotta play the games the company wants to play.
Wound up getting an offer from a large online company. Great pay, good job but really wanted to stay with the company I was with. Went to them hoping they would say we wanna keep you offer me a job, they told me good luck at the new company.
I hated the job I switched for an quit. The other intern was patient and today has a job with the company we were working for.
Looking a few years back I kinda kick myself for not being patient, the VC buyout never happened and they never went public so I was getting frustrated and rushing over nothing. I also realized I had a sense of entitlement and poor attitude.
Just wanted to put this out as a warning to other young professionals, straight out of college as I've seen this kind of attitude in some posts lately and its not gonna get you where you want to be
Just saw in another post someone saying they were smarter than their managers, frustrated they hadn't moved up, etc.
Out of college I think I had the expectation that you got a degree you should get a nice job making like 40k-50k.
Not to say that doesn't happen but economy is diff today and having a few years in the work force realize you gotta work your way up, starting salaries unless you have a unique skill is like 30k-35k, your fortunate if you can get 40k.
. Started at a great company, very employee friendly, pay well, pay for you to go to school, month long sabatical after 3 years, just a great company to work for
Anyhow, I was brought on as an intern with basicaly a promise I would be hired if I didn't suck. Internship turned into a couple 3 month contract positions every time I got extended I got a raise but still no benefits and my main thing was we had a VC interested and I wanted to be an employee incase we went public as it would have been a huge payout for employees.
I started with anther intern who's job performance wasn't as good as mine, wasn't very professional but was patient with the whole process.
I got frustrated, started letting it affect my attitude, felt the company was stringing me along which to a point they were but you gotta play the games the company wants to play.
Wound up getting an offer from a large online company. Great pay, good job but really wanted to stay with the company I was with. Went to them hoping they would say we wanna keep you offer me a job, they told me good luck at the new company.
I hated the job I switched for an quit. The other intern was patient and today has a job with the company we were working for.
Looking a few years back I kinda kick myself for not being patient, the VC buyout never happened and they never went public so I was getting frustrated and rushing over nothing. I also realized I had a sense of entitlement and poor attitude.
Just wanted to put this out as a warning to other young professionals, straight out of college as I've seen this kind of attitude in some posts lately and its not gonna get you where you want to be
If think you are refering to my post, "Deflated resume to get job, . . . . ."
My post was more centered around deflating my resume and advice on moving up in the company or looking elsewhere. As far as me knowing more than the managers in the department in this particular field, I absolutely do know more then them. As far as them knowing more about "managing people" then me , yes they do know more than me in managing people.
Is it so hard to conceive that someone like myself can have more knowledge in a particular field than my manager? Managers are hired first and foremost to "manage" they do not have to have extensive knowledge in the particular field they work in. I have heard of retail store managers being hired as bank managers and they have never even worked in a bank before. They didn't even know how to open a bank account for a customer. LOL
You also have to recognize that there are other ways to learn besides sitting in a classroom. Most of what i know today, I taught myself outside the classroom. Me knowing more about this field then my managers has very little to do with college or degrees. Like I said, most of what I know about this field I taught myself outside the classroom. I do credit college for getting me interested in learning. But I gained more knowledge outside the classroom, then in the classroom. Degrees have very little to do with me knowing more than my managers in this particular field.
As far as me badmouthing my managers, I disagree with some of the ways they manage. If it was only me saying this it would be a different story. When you have MANY people saying this it is an entirely different story too. I do not badmouth my managers because I went to move up in the company, this is a no brainer. Go back and read my thread.
If think you are refering to my post, "Deflated resume to get job, . . . . ."
My post was more centered around deflating my resume and advice on moving up in the company or looking elsewhere. As far as me knowing more than the managers in the department in this particular field, I absolutely do know more then them. As far as them knowing more about "managing people" then me , yes they do know more than me in managing people.
Is it so hard to conceive that someone like myself can have more knowledge in a particular field than my manager? Managers are hired first and foremost to "manage" they do not have to have extensive knowledge in the particular field they work in. I have heard of retail store managers being hired as bank managers and they have never even worked in a bank before. They didn't even know how to open a bank account for a customer. LOL
You also have to recognize that there are other ways to learn besides sitting in a classroom. Most of what i know today, I taught myself outside the classroom. Me knowing more about this field then my managers has very little to do with college or degrees. Like I said, most of what I know about this field I taught myself outside the classroom. I do credit college for getting me interested in learning. But I gained more knowledge outside the classroom, then in the classroom. Degrees have very little to do with me knowing more than my managers in this particular field.
As far as me badmouthing my managers, I disagree with some of the ways they manage. If it was only me saying this it would be a different story. When you have MANY people saying this it is an entirely different story too. I do not badmouth my managers because I went to move up in the company, this is a no brainer. Go back and read my thread.
I didn't think you had this attitude but someone commented incinuating you did, I don't agree with that but it brought this issue up in my mind.
You tend to hear alot of older people complaining about our generation as having this attitude and though I think they blow it out of proportion it is true.
I kinda fell into that mindset and it potentialy cost me a great opportunity with a great company.
Comming out of school I think you expect a 40k+ job with benefits, 401k match, etc etc, etc and its just not that way.
Even people who have been in the workforce much longer than us are working lower level positions than they are used to, workingn retail, etc.
I think part of it may be this big focus on education, you have to have a degree. It makes you think once you have that degree your set.
My current job I'm working I don't need a degree for. Not to say it was a waste as with future jobs I wouldn't even be considered without that piece of paper but its still frustrating.
There's such a focus put on a college degree I think we assume its this magical ticket to a good life. In reality most of my buddies who went into the trades or started at jobs that didn't require a degree and have 4 more years work experience than me are better off and making more money than myself.
In the past in the long run someone with a professional job and degree would probably make more over a lifetime but who knows with how the economy is now.
Anyhow, wasn't saying you have this attitude it was just a comment that someone made on your post that kind of reminded me of how I shot myself in the foot with the particular opportunity I had.
I think that has a lot to do with what professors telling their students flat out BS about salary expectations.
A lot of young people are worried that they won't be able to pay their student loans off on $8.00 an hour. Even if you can manage to keep your loans under $10,000, it would be difficult on $8.00 an hour. I hear older people complain about how they had to work for $7.00 an hour in 1955 and how all young people are lazy if they can't make it on $7.00 an hour in 2011. Older folks don't have student loans to worry about, college was cheap back then.
Plus, many older parents want their college graduate to leave the house after graduation. This means the kid is paying rent and student loans on $8.00 an hour. Add in car insurance, any medication for chronic illnesses, gas, utilities, phone, food, and the kid is going under financially. Sallie Mae won't let you keep your loans on forebearance forever and cars are frequently required in many places to even get to work.
I think that has a lot to do with what professors telling their students flat out BS about salary expectations.
Going by your comment, I'd think that you've never done research to know what kind of data is available about jobs. And no, it's not generated by hippy professors with no real-world experience. It comes from government reports (BLS), employers, and employees.
My uncle (55) and I (25) just had this same discussion last night. He was so far removed from the reality of today that it was just pointless to have the discussion with him. You could see him nearing frustration as he was unable to come up solutions to the problems I presented to him. And it's weird that in the majority of these instances where older people don't have an answer to the problems of today's youth, they begin portraying this very macho, cut-throat attitude towards you. Yet, when they're all drowning in mortgage and credit card debt, they cry for forgiveness. I've had to bail my 56 year old father out twice this year because he, like many other boomers, keep biting off more than they can chew. And no, he did not contribute a dime to my education.
Last edited by Z3N1TH 0N3; 02-13-2011 at 02:34 PM..
A lot of young people are worried that they won't be able to pay their student loans off on $8.00 an hour. Even if you can manage to keep your loans under $10,000, it would be difficult on $8.00 an hour. I hear older people complain about how they had to work for $7.00 an hour in 1955 and how all young people are lazy if they can't make it on $7.00 an hour in 2011. Older folks don't have student loans to worry about, college was cheap back then.
Plus, many older parents want their college graduate to leave the house after graduation. This means the kid is paying rent and student loans on $8.00 an hour. Add in car insurance, any medication for chronic illnesses, gas, utilities, phone, food, and the kid is going under financially. Sallie Mae won't let you keep your loans on forebearance forever and cars are frequently required in many places to even get to work.
It's your choice to take student loans. Seriously, there are other ways of getting a degree--taking a few years to work and save money after high school, doing two years of community college before transferring to a state university, work/study, working f/t while attending college (that's what I did, graduated with a total of $3K in student loans and did it with no help from my parents and while supporting myself.)
And back in the 1970's when I first entered the work for we were making $2.35 an hour, not $7, and college costs were proportionate. You might think they were "cheap" but if you take away inflation and compare them to the minimum wage of the time, they were no different than they are today.
Your student loans are not your potential employers problem. Period.
It's your choice to take student loans. Seriously, there are other ways of getting a degree--taking a few years to work and save money after high school, doing two years of community college before transferring to a state university, work/study, working f/t while attending college (that's what I did, graduated with a total of $3K in student loans and did it with no help from my parents and while supporting myself.)
And back in the 1970's when I first entered the work for we were making $2.35 an hour, not $7, and college costs were proportionate. You might think they were "cheap" but if you take away inflation and compare them to the minimum wage of the time, they were no different than they are today.
Your student loans are not your potential employers problem. Period.
A) You didn't actually finish your college degree, if I remember correctly. Another opportunity came up, or something like that. Yet you still portray yourself as a college grad. I find that humorous, and yet, sad.
B) You didn't go to college in the 1970s, it was more like the 1990s. And statistics show that college tuition today is much higher today, proportionate to incomes, than they were decades ago.
Also, I think we need to get something straight with all students who are enrolling in college. Does it matter where you finish your degree? If it can be proven that it does not, then I would say go anywhere that's the cheapest. A lot of kids I knew (including myself) got fooled, mislead, or what have you, into going to a more reputable school because of the information they were given about job prospects and incomes in comparison to other schools. If it can be proven, beyond a reasonable doubt, that going to a University of Chicago is not going to yield more job offers and bigger salaries than going to a Southeast Virginia State College, then hell, go for the cheaper option.
If you're going to dish advice, you should probably at least be honest with your audience. Just sayin.
Last edited by Z3N1TH 0N3; 02-13-2011 at 04:02 PM..
Going by your comment, I'd think that you've never done research to know what kind of data is available about jobs. And no, it's not generated by hippy professors with no real-world experience. It comes from government reports (BLS), employers, and employees.
In fact, I did do research as a college senior. I talked to people actually working in the industry and got a feel on what to expect. It was a far cry than what those in academia told me. I started out with lower pay, gained experience and skills and raises in pay. I live quite comfortably now. It takes time.
In fact, I did do research as a college senior. I talked to people actually working in the industry and got a feel on what to expect. It was a far cry than what those in academia told me. I started out with lower pay, gained experience and skills and raises in pay. I live quite comfortably now. It takes time.
Interesting. I've never had anyone in academia advise me on salaries in the field. I've always checked with sources such as BLS, PayScale, people in the field, etc. Even those stats can be misleading or not all inclusive.
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