Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Creating more educated folks doesn't create more high paying jobs. Only job creators can do this. If college grads had access to start up capital, they might have a shot. Hard to justify taking on even more debt for a lot of folks though.
Unfortunately, the only way to compete is on price anymore. That means lots of $9-$10/hr jobs. All part of the global playing field becoming level. Thank your politicians. Also thank your fellow Americans for voting for foreign, slave wage labor. The only hope is to export more cheap labor south of the boarder, which the country is doing a marvelous job of.
Good jobs have been leaking for a long time. I think part of the problem is the US economy isn't really much more than a giant shopping mall. How on earth are people supposed to pay back any sort of college loans on jobs that only pay in the $7.50 - $10.00 per hour range? It's insane to me. Most retail outlets only pull in around $50K - $75K of revenue per employee and COGS will eat most of that up, so you're stuck with maybe $15K - $20K for gross profit per employee. After all other business expenses you might be left with $10K - $15K per employee. Obviously the employer isn't going to give all that leftover money to the employee so the employee makes maybe $7K - $10K and the employer pockets the difference.
Another thing that I think hurts the job markets is relying too much on finance for economic growth. Finance tends to take a lot of money out of economic circulation that normally would circulate around various industries. THe only downside of cutting finance out would be that housing and commodities prices would fall trememdously...like having housing prices fall to the price of a used car, for example. It would be bad for the banks and some homeowners but I don't think it would be catastrophic.
A third reason is that government is crowding out legitimate economic activity. You have various regulations that are written basically to keep out smaller players and allows for the corrupt larger companies basically to run roughshot over everyone. Also, the various spending at the federal and state levels usually circulates around either handouts to private industry or to defense spending. Typically higher military spending leads to a weaker domestic economy judging by history and what we're seeing now.
Lastly, I think a lot of employers just figure they can squeeze whatever they can out of their current workforce and the employees won't complain. Labor law is practically non-existant in most of the USA; employers for some time have been really bad towards a lot of their people and only now is it becoming more obvious to everyone.
Last edited by fireandice1000; 08-02-2012 at 05:35 PM..
Reason: Forgot a section!
Creating more educated folks doesn't create more "high paying jobs".
But! regardless of how high paying a job may be far fewer of them REQUIRE a BA or BS
than the advocates for "high paying jobs" (almost exclusively BA or BS holders) assert.
The actual tasks of getting the actual job done on a day to day basis are rarely complicated.
Quote:
Unfortunately, the only way to compete is on price anymore.
That means lots of $9-$10/hr jobs.
OR! you could say that the actual tasks of the jobs don't warrant more (or much more) than that.
Part of that is the job itself (my fundamental point) but mostly it's about an oversupply of labor
that are pushing $18-$19 work down to the $9-$10/hr pay rate
Wrong, and the bolded word is where your logic jumps the shark. That is short-term thinking; it is good debt if adjusted for inflation (which is low), the return via long-term earnings versus the high school grad median wages exceed the debt. In other words, if one graduates in 2012, earnings in future years as well as debt, and median high school grad earnings, should all be adjusted to 2012 levels, to gauge the ROI.
But anyone who says "soon after" has defined a major error in logic. College is a long-term asset, and just the first step in a lifelong learning process. Too many make it the end of their learning pattern, and they of course suffer for that.
Actually, I'm exactly right, and next time read my posts on this thread where I clearly state people should go to college if they can, despite the expense. If I didn't believe in college, why would I have gotten an engineering degree? Geez... read the post and know the background of the person you're addressing next time...
Secondly, while a life-long learning process is wonderful, it doesn't pay the bills or the student loans. You still don't explain why we should be rejoicing that people need to get deeply in debt to get a degree when in years gone by this was not needed. Also, nobody here is debating the value of a good degree - the problem is in the current situation, where a crummy economy is resulting in debt burdens that are crushing students. Unless this is more of the disproven world-view, where the system is perfect, and any negative outcomes are clearly the fault of the people in the system.
Last edited by Rambler123; 08-02-2012 at 07:28 PM..
An ever-decreasing number of well-paying jobs and a glut of job seekers with bachelor's degrees makes for a very competitive job market. Bachelor's degrees are a dime a dozen; they've become the new high school diploma.
An ever-decreasing number of well-paying jobs and a glut of job seekers with bachelor's degrees makes for a very competitive job market. Bachelor's degrees are a dime a dozen; they've become the new high school diploma.
You still don't explain why we should be rejoicing that people need to get deeply in debt to get a degree when in years gone by this was not needed..
Four limbs alone is no longer a marketable skill. We've evolved past that, and it's wonderful to see tens of millions past mind-numbing repetitious movements day in, day out without change for 40 years.
24k in average stuident loan debt is little more than most car loans, and will long outlast the car's useful life.
Actually, I'm exactly right, and next time read my posts on this thread where I clearly state people should go to college if they can, despite the expense. If I didn't believe in college, why would I have gotten an engineering degree? Geez... read the post and know the background of the person you're addressing next time...
Secondly, while a life-long learning process is wonderful, it doesn't pay the bills or the student loans. You still don't explain why we should be rejoicing that people need to get deeply in debt to get a degree when in years gone by this was not needed. Also, nobody here is debating the value of a good degree - the problem is in the current situation, where a crummy economy is resulting in debt burdens that are crushing students. Unless this is more of the disproven world-view, where the system is perfect, and any negative outcomes are clearly the fault of the people in the system.
The main problem is people don't differentiate between schools. At a top 100 school the average grad has about 15k in debt which is very manageable.
To paint a broad brush and lump the UOP grad who has 50k in loans with a kid who has 15k from Chapel Hill is quite foolish.
24k in average stuident loan debt is little more than most car loans, and will long outlast the car's useful life.
Apples and oranges.
You don't need a $24K car to land a living wage job.
Furthermore, you can get rid of a car loan if worse comes to worse in a bankruptcy proceeding, assuming the bank doesn't repossess the car and destroy your credit.
If you go a year without paying a student loan after graduating, with interest rates you're talking about adding on an ADDITIONAL $5K in interest onto the principal, at minimum. It's stuck with you too (it's almost impossible to get rid of the debt in a bankruptcy) as the interest continues to steadily accrue until you die or pay off the entire balance, regardless of how much damage it does to your credit.
You don't need a $24K car to land a living wage job.
Furthermore, you can get rid of a car loan if worse comes to worse in a bankruptcy proceeding, assuming the bank doesn't repossess the car and destroy your credit.
If you go a year without paying a student loan after graduating, with interest rates you're talking about adding on an ADDITIONAL $5K in interest onto the principal, at minimum. It's stuck with you too (it's almost impossible to get rid of the debt in a bankruptcy) as the interest rate continues to steadily accrue until you die, regardless of how much damage it does to your credit.
If one is in dire straits, deferrments are possible, and unlike the 24k car which was worth 16k or less the moment one left the lot. College is long-term gratification, and it takes maturity to accept the ROI will not be in a nanosecond.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
