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Old 12-24-2013, 01:18 AM
 
24,488 posts, read 41,146,617 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slowpoke_TX View Post
What makes you think that only government is capable of protecting / providing?


Have you no faith in individual charity, or in that of churches and non-profit organizations?
As an individual who follows the teachings of the lord and savior, Christ, I recognize that the church is not in alliance with pure goodness. Many charities, just like the government, have huge flaws.
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Old 12-24-2013, 05:30 AM
 
Location: Metro Detroit, Michigan
29,823 posts, read 24,913,395 times
Reputation: 28520
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slowpoke_TX View Post
What makes you think that only government is capable of protecting / providing?


Have you no faith in individual charity, or in that of churches and non-profit organizations?
Somehow, I can't envision churches or charities rolling up their sleeves and building bridges and roadways. As for protecting, should we all seek out the mob for "protection"? Like it or not, we do need government for some things. Mind you, that's no measure of my approval of the government we have.
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Old 12-24-2013, 05:35 AM
 
16,431 posts, read 22,202,108 times
Reputation: 9623
Robotics will replace almost all low skilled jobs throughout the world. Even low wage China is replacing humans with robots. It is here and it is unstoppable. Now, what happens to all those low skilled human workers?
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Old 12-24-2013, 07:39 AM
 
Location: Berwick, Penna.
16,216 posts, read 11,338,692 times
Reputation: 20828
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bideshi View Post
Robotics will replace almost all low skilled jobs throughout the world. Even low wage China is replacing humans with robots. It is here and it is unstoppable. Now, what happens to all those low skilled human workers?
You've got it bass-ackwards: the digital/cybernetic "revolution" came down hardest on those with a set of specific skills, often based upon memory, Those guys and gals, many of them baby-boomers well into middle age, were pushed back toward "the line" where strength, speed, co-ordination and stamina were the most-desired "skills"? And nobody's going to retrain a 45-year old male when a 22-year-old female is available.

In fairness, there are still any number of options for somebody willing to hustle; "soft skills' -- the ability to handle individual people's sensitivities, are among the most prominent -- call centers have a large demand for this, and from there the natural path upward involves supervision and teaching.

But the unfortunate fact is that the combination of swaddling by the electronic media and a lifestyle based on a combination of credentials and credit has created a generation of spoiled diletentes; we seek to adapt our jobs to our desired lifestyle, and most regular, entry-level employment is geared in precisely the opposite direction; somebody is hiring because (s)he has more business than (s)he can handle -- but it's the most tedious part of the job that requires somebody to take up the slack. And long before there was a developed hierarchy of educated professionals, there was a huge demand for personal servants.

We'll get by just as we always have, With a couple of exceptions, like energy, (and we're learning how to adapt on that score as well) the essentials remain relatively cheap. But the simple fact is that when just about any of us gets a full belly and a warm, dry place to sleep, the next of our wants involves somebody else's time and attention.

And the games (and the whining) begin anew.
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Old 12-24-2013, 08:54 AM
 
Location: NJ
18,665 posts, read 19,972,963 times
Reputation: 7315
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bideshi View Post
Robotics will replace almost all low skilled jobs throughout the world. Even low wage China is replacing humans with robots. It is here and it is unstoppable. Now, what happens to all those low skilled human workers?
I doubt it would pass the ROI test in Asia, as it comes down to a simple equation:

How many years of savings does it take to offset the initial capital expenditure?
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Old 12-24-2013, 10:10 AM
 
7,927 posts, read 7,818,729 times
Reputation: 4157
Quote:
Originally Posted by andywire View Post
Somehow, I can't envision churches or charities rolling up their sleeves and building bridges and roadways. As for protecting, should we all seek out the mob for "protection"? Like it or not, we do need government for some things. Mind you, that's no measure of my approval of the government we have.
Well actually quite a bit was made
List of Crusader castles - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Ok you might say that was a long long time ago and has no relavance...but yet this happened in the USA

Amana Colonies - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

"The Amana Colonies are seven villages on 26,000 acres (11,000 ha) in east-central Iowa, United States: Amana (or Main Amana), East Amana, High Amana, Middle Amana, South Amana, West Amana, and Homestead. The villages were built and settled by German Pietists, who were persecuted in their homeland by the German state government and the Lutheran Church. Calling themselves the Community of True Inspiration (German: die Gemeinde der wahren Inspiration), they first settled in New York near Buffalo in what is now the Town of West Seneca. However, seeking more isolated surroundings, they moved to Iowa (near present-day Iowa City) in 1856. They lived a communal life until the mid-1930s.

For eighty years, the Amana Colonies maintained an almost completely self-sufficient local economy, importing very little from the industrializing American economy. The Amanians were able to achieve this independence and lifestyle by adhering to the specialized crafting and farming occupations that they had brought with them from Europe. Craftsmen passed their skills and techniques on from one generation to the next. They used hand, horse, wind, and water power, and made their own furniture, clothes, and other goods. The community voted to form a for-profit organization during the Great Depression, the Amana Society, which included the Amana Corporation."

So yes it can happen but I would argue the decline of religious groups in western countries post ww 2 pretty much prevents the scale of which you are talking about.
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Old 12-24-2013, 10:24 AM
 
1,728 posts, read 3,550,908 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobtn View Post
I doubt it would pass the ROI test in Asia, as it comes down to a simple equation:

How many years of savings does it take to offset the initial capital expenditure?
Your thinking is too simplistic and very narrow. And for some reason, does not develop overtime.
You must be a robot

Last edited by GTRdad; 12-24-2013 at 10:39 AM..
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Old 12-24-2013, 10:42 AM
 
278 posts, read 308,764 times
Reputation: 208
Lightbulb Well...

No.
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Old 12-24-2013, 12:56 PM
 
Location: San Diego California
6,795 posts, read 7,289,826 times
Reputation: 5194
Quote:
Originally Posted by hnsq View Post
The 50s taught us that war held on foreign soil is very profitable for a country, and the 80s taught us that a Fed Chairman who cares more about economics than politics is good for an economy. Neither say anything particularly strong about the middle class.
Wars on foreign soils are not profitable for countries, they are profitable for special interests like defense contractors. For countries themselves they are expensive and sources of debt. Vietnam was directly responsible for the US being unable to back their currency with gold and silver and resulted in the mass inflation of the 70's.
Like all aspects of economics, there is no one thing that benefits everyone, mostly profit is always made at someone elses expense.
The thing about robotics that is so interesting is that it is replacing the need for cheap labor making billions of people not only unnecessary, but a liability to the upper classes....
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Old 12-24-2013, 01:05 PM
 
Location: Buckeye, AZ
38,936 posts, read 23,903,106 times
Reputation: 14125
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdovell View Post
Well actually quite a bit was made
List of Crusader castles - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Ok you might say that was a long long time ago and has no relavance...but yet this happened in the USA

Amana Colonies - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

"The Amana Colonies are seven villages on 26,000 acres (11,000 ha) in east-central Iowa, United States: Amana (or Main Amana), East Amana, High Amana, Middle Amana, South Amana, West Amana, and Homestead. The villages were built and settled by German Pietists, who were persecuted in their homeland by the German state government and the Lutheran Church. Calling themselves the Community of True Inspiration (German: die Gemeinde der wahren Inspiration), they first settled in New York near Buffalo in what is now the Town of West Seneca. However, seeking more isolated surroundings, they moved to Iowa (near present-day Iowa City) in 1856. They lived a communal life until the mid-1930s.

For eighty years, the Amana Colonies maintained an almost completely self-sufficient local economy, importing very little from the industrializing American economy. The Amanians were able to achieve this independence and lifestyle by adhering to the specialized crafting and farming occupations that they had brought with them from Europe. Craftsmen passed their skills and techniques on from one generation to the next. They used hand, horse, wind, and water power, and made their own furniture, clothes, and other goods. The community voted to form a for-profit organization during the Great Depression, the Amana Society, which included the Amana Corporation."

So yes it can happen but I would argue the decline of religious groups in western countries post ww 2 pretty much prevents the scale of which you are talking about.
Exactly, since the 1940's there has been more personal beliefs than traditional religious beliefs and the various religions have not kept with the times. You still hear about the hell, fire and brimstone beliefs to this day (just look at the Robinson family with Phil's recent anti-gay remarks.) I even stopped attending my local church back in New York when an Easter prayer service was used to pray that abortions are illegal.

To get back to the topic, there aren't enough local answers to save those who would be drastically impacted if bobtn's views of RFID and burger makers wipes out lower and even middle income jobs. The problem is we have many small charities fighting for the same end goal, helping people (whether it is simple financial help like say Habitat for Humanity, help getting food like soup kitchens and food banks, help with illnesses like the various cancer charities or even Make a Wish or Give Kids the World for sick kids to forget their struggles for a day or two.) These many different places eventually add up and not everyone can help with every single cause.
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