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Originally Posted by petch751
You do realize that of those who believed Obama when he said "tax the rich" he was going after small businesses right?
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Originally Posted by Tekkie
Yeah, keep your political propaganda on the political forums.
Your wrong. Do you think big business makes $200k? No it's more in the multimillions but Democrats went after $200k, that's small business. Before you write me off why don't you look up S-Corps and flow through entities and how it effects small business and people employed by small business.
Congratulations, people like you really hammered small business then complain about jobs. Before you spout you should learn first.
Your wrong. Do you think big business makes $200k? No it's more in the multimillions but Democrats went after $200k, that's small business. Before you write me off why don't you look up S-Corps and flow through entities and how it effects small business and people employed by small business.
Congratulations, people like you really hammered small business then complain about jobs. Before you spout you should learn first.
Don't you mean you're?
Your allegations are absurd and downright false. You're stereotyping me based on other comments that have clearly infuriated you. I've never "hammered small business". I'm a huge proponent of small, local business. Once you get your emotions in check, I'm open to discussing this in more detail.
And FYI my comment about leaving your political views out of this discussion is strictly about maintaining some civility on this forum. If you want to partake in pointless feuds that are derivative of some fanatical idealism or political fan club affiliation, take it on over the Politics sub-forum. There's a reason why many of us don't go on there. We certainly want to keep it from coming to us.
Are you sure you didn't confuse personal income with business income? Because I can't think what you are talking about otherwise.
Most small businesses are sole proprietorships. About 70% of all U.S. business are sole proprietorships. In this business form, the owner is the business. 99% of the sole proprietorships in the United States have revenues of less than $1 million per year. The advantages of the sole proprietorship is that the proprietor owns the entire business and receives all of the profits. The disadantage of this type of business form is that the proprietor alone bears the burden of any losses or liabilities incurred by the business enterprise. The sole proprietorship has a hard time to raise capital.
The profits or losses of this business form pass through to the owner's personal tax return.
1) Yes, I have small business experience, so I'm not a random "whiner": Actually, I am involved in a small business - a local publishing company - so I can speak with some experience on the matter. Quite frankly, the setup is such that it heavily favors large industry while crushing small business. You are rapidly buried under fees, expenses, and so on. It makes it difficult to turn a profit, much less grow the company, yet these expenses would be nothing for a large business. So, keep in mind that when I "complain" about business, I am speaking of the huge corporations that have bought up everything and rewritten the laws in their favor. Small business folks get hosed in this nation, and I feel for them.
2) I find it extremely hard to believe you "can't find anyone" to work for you. In this economy, that is very strange since most people will gladly take ANYTHING if it will pay their bills (and won't kill them, maim them, etc.) So... I can't help but wonder if the work you are offering is at such a low pay scale that it won't pay the bills. Supply and demand work both ways - if you can't find any workers, perhaps nobody is interested in what you are offering, which would result in you get only the lowest of the leftovers. Nothing personal, but seriously - if the pay is lousy, you'll mostly get lousy.
3) We the "complainers" are mostly fine with small business. Nobody here was denying that there are bad workers. Nobody here was claiming that is easy to hire people. We are, however, stating actual facts regarding how difficult it is for people to find work regardless of their skill sets and abilities. The system is rigged to favor connections, sociopath behavior, and big business, not hard work or doing the right thing. Small businesses get the shaft in most cases, but those are not the problems anyway.
4) Do you trust your employees? And if not, do they know that? I am troubled by the pride you take in not hiring anyone that is seemingly backed up by the strongly expressed belief that the only way to get something done right is to do it yourself. Believe me, I know all about other people screwing up, but the reality is that any business that wants to grow will need to hire other people and trust them to do their jobs. I also have to wonder if this attitude comes across in your interaction with your employees; if it is clear to them that you will never trust them and consider them nothing but screw-ups, they will get sick of that crap and leave, unless the pay is really good... I don't mean this personally, but I work with people with that attitude of "I alone can do thing rights, and everyone else is a screw-up" and they are death to a business because they will drive away talent and drag the whole ship down with them as everything turns into blame-storming and backstabbing.
As for politics, all I will say is this: contrary to what seems to be popular belief on these forums, "you" - and by that, I refer to each person who supports certain radical viewpoints - are not the only person who's worked hard in life and "everyone else" is not a welfare bum / screw-up / "taker" / whatever.
Last edited by Rambler123; 12-20-2013 at 09:09 PM..
1) Yes, I have small business experience, so I'm not a random "whiner": Actually, I am involved in a small business - a local publishing company - so I can speak with some experience on the matter. Quite frankly, the setup is such that it heavily favors large industry while crushing small business. You are rapidly buried under fees, expenses, and so on. It makes it difficult to turn a profit, much less grow the company, yet these expenses would be nothing for a large business. So, keep in mind that when I "complain" about business, I am speaking of the huge corporations that have bought up everything and rewritten the laws in their favor. Small business folks get hosed in this nation, and I feel for them.
Welcome to my world. If I'm manufacturing 10 small components, I need to first purchase my material. Since I'm not a large consumer of material, I am paying a steep upcharge for my material. A large purchaser could easily get the material at a 25% discount. How can I compete with that? Well luckily, I have no overhead, I don't have to pay for machinery, and I can even use the occasional expendable should I need it.
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Originally Posted by Rambler123
2) I find it extremely hard to believe you "can't find anyone" to work for you.
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Originally Posted by Rambler123
In this economy, that is simply laughable since most people will gladly take ANYTHING if it will pay their bills (and won't kill them, maim them, etc.) So... I can't help but wonder if the work you are offering is at such a low pay scale that it won't pay the bills. Supply and demand work both ways - if you can't find any workers, perhaps nobody is interested in what you are offering, which would result in you get only the lowest of the leftovers.
There is no problem "finding anyone". If I'm hiring, I don't want just anyone though. I want someone who is going to show up on time, ready to work, and work with some effort. If I'm paying $16/hr, I don't expect the world, but I don't expect a laundry list of random excuses. I don't expect someone to take issue with the work (that was clearly outlined prior to hiring). In general, I expect someone reasonable dependable. Finding that someone was illusive to the point that I decided to forgo hiring. Much easier to work alone than to deal with the mystery employees who chronically disappointed.
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Originally Posted by Rambler123
3) Citing a handful of examples of lousy workers and using that as some "proof" against those of us who are justifiably angry at the corporate takeover of America is silly and makes no sense at all.
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Originally Posted by Rambler123
Nobody here was denying that there are bad workers. Nobody here was claiming that is easy to hire people. We are, however, stating actual facts regarding how difficult it is for people to find work regardless of their skill sets and abilities. The system is rigged to favor connections and sociopath behavior, not hard work or doing the right thing. If you're having trouble finding workers that aren't complete bums, that is extremely unusual based upon all available data regarding the employment situation; either you're in a nitch industry with no training or, as I've mentioned before, what your company is offering is simply not worth it.
What proof are you talking about? I was merely pointing out the challenges that most actual business owners undoubtedly face. It ain't a picnic, particularly when you rely on the dependability of a hire to feed your family. It enough to make me think otherwise when it comes to starting a business. I can say with certainty, I have absolutely no intent to start a business, unless it was a one man operation. Every business owner I have worked for have all cited the same major challenge... Finding good help is a major hurdle to overcome. They offer good money and they end up with the same results as when they offered crap.
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Originally Posted by Rambler123
4) How obvious is your attitude to your employees?
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Originally Posted by Rambler123
I am troubled by the pride you take in not hiring anyone that is seemingly backed up by the strongly expressed belief that the only way to get something done right is to do it yourself. Believe me, I know all about other people screwing up, but the reality is that any business that wants to grow will need to hire other people and trust them to do their jobs. I also have to wonder if this attitude comes across in your interaction with your employees; if it is clear to them that you will never trust them and consider them nothing but screw-ups, they will get sick of that crap and leave, unless the pay is really good... which I suspect it's not based upon the almost unique inability you're claiming to have in finding any workers who are remotely capable of doing any work whatsoever.
I do not own a business. When I found better full time work, I ceased my previous operation and wished my customers the best. While I often take on side projects that match what services I can offer, I refuse take on anything larger than I can handle myself. It simplifies my life and provides extra financial security. I have no interest in trying to get rich. I have no desire to expand or grow in my current pursuits. So long as I never have to worry about money, food in the fridge, a place to sleep, I'm more than satisfied. Let the rest of the cash glutens try to make money on the available supply of good help, while sifting through the dopes.
No offense was intended - I often get on the case of folks bashing the anti-corporate people, so I apologize if I came across too strongly here.
1) I work in manufacturing and mechanical engineering, so I'm well aware of the problems in that industry. My sympathies - it's a wretched profession from a business perspective, though it is rewarding from the viewpoint of creating things.
2) The lack of good workers can in part be explained by companies not rewarding good workers. My own life is a painful example of that - I've told the story enough times around here, but to sum up: engineering degree, 10 years of well-above average performance at 1 company, and it meant nothing in the end. I had my job taken from me and my career destroyed while connected idiots and cronies were spared. I then struggled for 2 years to find work because corporations came up with every excuse in the books not to hire me (or anyone else) since once you're laid off, you're basically black-listed. It's sick.
My new job is the same crud: my department works very hard and is vital to the company, but we are constantly blamed for everything that goes wrong even though a child could see that most of the problems are created by insanely unrealistic management expectations vs. "laziness" or some BS. Meanwhile, connected idiots who literally screw up every job they touch and refuse to follow required company standards are let off the hook and given pats on the back, employee of the month bonus checks, and so on.
Given how much of corporate America is dominated by this type of thinking, it's no wonder there are so few good workers left.
3) I get that you're not running a business now and don't want that aggravation. All I was getting at is that trust is key in any company. In a company like my current one, where management has made it clear that it considers everyone else idiots and bums, a toxic work environment rapidly sets in and will eventually kill the place. Companies like that often have trouble attracting any workers, much less good ones, or retaining them.
It's a myth that raising the personal income tax on the wealthy will affect a large number of small businesses. It is true that many small business owners report their business income as personal income, but a very small percentage of small businesses would be affected by tax increases on those who make more than $250,000. I'm talking 2-5% of small businesses. Yes, the most successful small businesses that have larger numbers of employees would be affected, but there are so little of them that they wouldn't even have much of an effect on the unemployment rate.
Your allegations are absurd and downright false. You're stereotyping me based on other comments that have clearly infuriated you. I've never "hammered small business". I'm a huge proponent of small, local business. Once you get your emotions in check, I'm open to discussing this in more detail.
And FYI my comment about leaving your political views out of this discussion is strictly about maintaining some civility on this forum. If you want to partake in pointless feuds that are derivative of some fanatical idealism or political fan club affiliation, take it on over the Politics sub-forum. There's a reason why many of us don't go on there. We certainly want to keep it from coming to us.
I am not infuriated, in fact I look at you as naive. You say you are a proponent of small business yet don't understand business and how government effects business. So you can say you are a proponent all you want, if you don't understand the correlation you are useless.
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