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Location: East of Seattle since 1992, 615' Elevation, Zone 8b - originally from SF Bay Area
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When I was struggling to keep from losing my home, and everything else in 2008, I had two siblings in different states that did lose their homes. I had several friends that like me, were going through their savings and wondering what they would do next if they didn't find a job soon. Since I got a job in 2009 I have been promoted twice, all friends and family have found jobs and are doing fine now. While I still read a lot of stories of people (especially here on CD) that are still struggling, I really do not see it any more. I do see people buying new cars, new homes and apartment buildings going up and several construction cranes building tall offices, meaning many more people in construction working again. I think that amid so much apparent prosperity, it's hard for people to think that there are still a lot of good people unable to find work. I remember what it was like during my dismal days, and I am grateful that it only lasted about 18 months. As a hiring manager now, I am reminded when I still get 100 applicants for one job that requires 3-5 years experience.
To understand the faulty mindset used by the "all unemployed people are bums" folks, look up the Just World Fallacy. It'll give you insight into their strange viewpoint. In short, deep down, they really do believe that "everyone gets what they deserve in life" which leads to the corollary, "if bad things happen to you, you deserve it." It's a failure of a belief system since it doesn't hold up to facts. For example, take the starving child born into poverty who then dies young - how did that child "deserve it?"
"The just-world hypothesis or just-world fallacy is the cognitive bias (or assumption) that a person's actions always bring morally fair and fitting consequences to that person, so that all noble actions are eventually rewarded and all evil actions are eventually punished. In other words, the just-world hypothesis is the tendency to attribute consequences to—or expect consequences as the result of—a universal force that restores moral balance. The fallacy is that this implies (often unintentionally) the existence of cosmic justice, desert, stability, or order, and may also serve to rationalize people's misfortune on the grounds that they deserve it."
Much of this failed belief system is no different than the Dark Ages misapplication of "God's wrath." Back then, if you were out of work or otherwise suffering, you clearly "were a sinner who had offended God." Nowadays, they just hide the religious overtones and slap a new coat of paint on the same old thing, instead saying that people who are out of work or otherwise suffering, "deserve it" or "lack skills / work ethic / whatever."
Many people who buy into this belief system do so to fluff up their own egos. They need to believe deep down that one only gets what one deserves in life to justify their own good fortune. They need to convince themselves that luck played no role in their success - that they are "entirely self-made men" - and thus deserving of everything they've received. They then easily fall into the corollary belief - that those who have had misfortune "deserve it" - but they cannot abandon the Just World Fallacy since so much of their sense of self-worth is tied up in believing that they "earned" every good thing in their lives.
It's also a BIG part of Darwinism and evolution that is being taught in schools now -- the survival of the fittest, the weak are meant to be weeded out. Nature favors those who can more easily adapt.
You know what I wish? That the currently employed stop taking their jobs for granted and realize how lucky they are right now. I find a lot (read, not ALL) of employed people who act like there wasn't an economic crash and they think the job economy is good. They think that people are unemployed because they are lazy, freeriders, or simply not working hard enough. They also think they are employed because they "worked hard" and "applied themselves" to their profession.
STOP. If you think that way, YOU'RE WRONG.
Maybe it takes being on the other side of the fence to really realize how bad the situation is. I'm unemployed now for the second time in 4 years, was laid off both times after a grueling hunt to even get the offer in the first place. I get so sick of people acting like I'm not trying hard enough, all while they COMPLAIN about their well paying and stable jobs. Seriously, the job complainers I can't stand. No one should ever complain about their job right now unless there is something seriously going wrong at it, but yet day in and day out I see people on my Facebook complaining how their jobs "suck" and they "deserve" better jobs. These employed people need to stop complaining about their employment and be thankful.
Truth is, there is a whole bunch of people out there right now who would wish nothing more to find work again, but they just can't. They are doing everything right, networking, making connections, applying literally everywhere, interviewing right, sending good resumes, it's just a really terrible market now, and more often than not I just see offers going to the person most liked or has the best connection with the company rather than the person most qualified. It's painful being on the unemployed side of the fence, trying to find work is a harder job than any job I worked before and I put in the hours to match...
Sorry for the rant, but just needed to vent about how naive currently employed people act towards unemployment..
(EDIT: One clarification to be made. I meant to say in my first paragraph that many employed people act like they work harder or apply themselves more than those that are unemployed. I'm sure there are many employed people who worked hard to get where they are, but I sure as heck know there are lots of unemployed who have worked much harder than those that are employed. To think you got employed because you worked harder than those that are unemployed is a faulty mindset. )
I certainly worked harder than a whole slew of people to get a recession proof degree, as did my wife.
We gave up tremendous amounts of our youth taking science heavy coursework to get us to where we are now. Sure I could have done an easier career path, and one that would have paid better in good times, but I chose to ensure that no matter what I would never again live wondering how I was going to eat the next day (you'd be surprised how true hunger can affect a child and make them evaluate their entire life as to not make the same mistakes as their hard working but poor blue collar parents).
Do I have the work ethic of my father? No. But I did work harder at a younger age so that I wouldn't have to later in life.
You made your life choices, I made mine. I gave my youth so that my children would never be hungry, and would never depend on donated clothing and sleep in beds recovered from the trash.
What makes you think use employed folks are oblivious to the challenges in the job market? Sounds like a sweeping generalization to me, right on par with all unemployed people are lazy, and to entitled to take a job beneath their predetermined worth. At any rate, what would you like us to do exactly? Seriously, name one thing. If you had a job, and those around you were struggling, what would you do differently?
I've been laid off twice in the past 6 years. I consider no job to be permanent. More than anything, employment is simply a form of transaction. I work for you in exchange for a wage and possible benefits. That's it. No thank yous required from any party, although there is nothing wrong with manners. Nobody starts a business out of generosity, so I'm curious why us employed folks owe anyone a thanks.
As a hiring manager now, I am reminded when I still get 100 applicants for one job that requires 3-5 years experience.
Yeah, but how many of those 100 meet the experience requirement?
We hired for a tech position a few weeks ago. 400+ applications. ~5 that were not trash. 200+ that had absolutely nothing to do with the field. I mean ZERO tech experience.. We're talking Jen from The IT Crowd here. Not even tech education.. They thought because they had a smartphone they were qualified. Probably 50 that were out of state (They don't consider out of state people for whatever reason).. Another 20-30 that were disqualified immediately for spelling/other mistakes on the resume. Yep, that one happens.
I don't do the hiring, but.. That's what the person who does the hiring at our company looks at.
I was laid off from a 10+ year job in December 2009. Had a new job in February 2010, which, technically I was working at even while I was with the other company, but it was part time.. I went full time 1099er on it in Feb 2010. Contract ended on it in June 2012, had a new job 3 days later.
That being said.. I have a relative who was fired in mid-2010, out of work until early 2012. Held that job for 6 months when the contract ended.. Had a job in November, 2013 for a day. Another job in November 2013 for a day. Just got a job today.. We'll see if it lasts more than a day.
It's very field specific. There are some people who have no problems getting another job, some that do. And, like it or not.. the slightest thing wrong puts you out of the running. I'm sure some of those people who made spelling mistakes on their resume that we got were fine people who would have done a good job. Probably should have used the F7 key. I mean, they're looking for a tech job, if they don't know how to use spell check...
Just because you are having a problem finding a job doesn't mean you're the problem. But.. It's an excellent opportunity to look at yourself, and I think you're almost forced to do so, to make sure that you're not the problem. In some cases.. You are the problem. In some cases, you're just one unlucky SOB. I think anyone who was unemployed in the 2008-2010 range will agree that things are better now, there are alot more opportunities out there now than there were then.
And.. The "Just world" thing.. Couldn't you have just said Karma? lol.. I am, like it or not, a believer in karma.. Do good things, good things happen. Just having that belief (Whether deep down I REALLY believe it or not) I think creates a positive attitude that really does help good things happen.
The long-term unemployed are unemployable for one reason or another. There is no reason why somebody should be unemployed for longer than two years, and even that's a stretch. If you fit the scenario, you really need to focus on yourself for awhile.
What makes you think use employed folks are oblivious to the challenges in the job market? Sounds like a sweeping generalization to me, right on par with all unemployed people are lazy, and to entitled to take a job beneath their predetermined worth. At any rate, what would you like us to do exactly? Seriously, name one thing. If you had a job, and those around you were struggling, what would you do differently?
I've been laid off twice in the past 6 years. I consider no job to be permanent. More than anything, employment is simply a form of transaction. I work for you in exchange for a wage and possible benefits. That's it. No thank yous required from any party, although there is nothing wrong with manners. Nobody starts a business out of generosity, so I'm curious why us employed folks owe anyone a thanks.
You owe a thanks because you very well could be on the unemployed side and be facing all the horrible struggles that unemployment brings. If I had a job right now what would I do to help those struggling? Not much I can do to help them find work other than urge them to keep up the good fight, but one thing I know I would do for sure is NEVER complain a peep about my job and probably thank god I have it every night before I go to bed. My whole point of this thread is that employed people should stop taking their jobs for granted, be truly thankful they are where they are. I see too many employed job complainers, too many employed people who think they got there because they deserved it, or like I said earlier, because they worked harder than anyone else. (And even if you did work hard, saying it as almost to brag about it is arrogant beyond belief). For all the employed person knows, they might ONLY have that job because of being in the right place at the right time, LUCK, NOT because of their skills or hard work. You can't argue luck out as a factor no matter how you look at it, unless of course you are one that just got the job because you know someone.
Point is, it truly sucks being unemployed. Lives and families are being ruined despite many unemployed whose only wish is to JUST TO FIND WORK AGAIN. The tables could be turned easily, so employed people need to be grateful they are employed and not on the other side of the fence. Even owning your own business is no surefire guarantee of your employment, your customers can decide to stop using your business anytime and your company can go under. Sure employment is a mutual transaction, but in today's job economy, it truly is a gift. We wouldn't have MILLIONS without jobs otherwise. For every job you take, you're depriving someone else of it, actually, probably many who are more qualified than you. Having a job is something to be very thankful for.
Last edited by the_grimace; 03-11-2014 at 10:32 PM..
The long-term unemployed are unemployable for one reason or another. There is no reason why somebody should be unemployed for longer than two years, and even that's a stretch. If you fit the scenario, you really need to focus on yourself for awhile.
I'm not surprised, I've know a couple 2+ year unemployed through no fault of their own. Heck, the one guy had been working temp jobs in hope of one turning to a full-time hire, but none ever went that route, they truly were temp despite his good performance.
At the very least, I don't think it's uncommon at all to see 1+ year unemployment. I'm going on 7 months of unemployment despite having had a good amount of interviews, and I have a good friend and colleague who is going on 14 months of unemployment, and with his 15 years of experience, he has had tons of interviews but not a single offer. My uncle also got laid off in the 2008 economic crash, took him a year and a half to find a new job, and it really hit him hard. He was the sole breadwinner for a family of 4 children and wife, he was making 125k/year prior. His world literally came crashing down around him. Long story short, took him forever to find a new job and tons of stress in the meantime that really affected his health and outlook.
Just a really bad job market these last several years. Long unemployment is not too uncommon.
The long-term unemployed are unemployable for one reason or another. There is no reason why somebody should be unemployed for longer than two years, and even that's a stretch. If you fit the scenario, you really need to focus on yourself for awhile.
Disagree. There are a myriad of reasons: age discrimination, shyness, bad luck, etc.
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