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What's the difference between employees and independent contractors?
Maybe that's how the job is being classified and that's why it's legal for them to hire our daughter?
Some companies try to avoid employment and tax laws by calling a worker an independent contractor. That won't work for a child or an individual who doesn't operate a business. FedX just lost a case in federal court at the appellate level for this same issue. One of the judges asked the question: If you call a dog's tail a leg how many legs does a dog have? The answer is four because calling a tail a leg does not make it so.
To call your daughter an independent contractor doesn't make it so.
If you treasure your relationship with that employer do not let them hire your daughter or call her an independent contractor. If the Fed or State agencies discover that they will be assessed significant civil money penalties. Although she is not likely to be injured doing data entry IF she should suffer serious injury in the course of her employment they could go to jail and children's services could be taking a long look at you. Just DON'T do it!
I am happy with the volume of people writing in with advice. I responded to each poster to try to control the amount of walls of text being posted. I hope this posting etiquette is acceptable.
I don't really think you want our advice, since you seem more worried about getting "caught" than about ethics.
Only if you are doing work as an independent contractor.
Independent contractors sell a service (such as lawn care) for a flat rate (say $30/mowing) rather than selling time (yard maintenance for $10 per hour). The employer has little to say in how the service is rendered (for example in lawn care, they do not specify the time to start and stop work, the type of equipment being used, or typically the direction that the lawn is being mowed) but only the overall project goals (perhaps lawn height, whether grass clippings are taken off site, etc).
Employees are given lots of direction on how to do the job. How high to mow the lawn, what chemicals to use, what equipment to use, when to start the job, which sequence to do the jobs in, etc, etc, etc.
So wouldn't her job be doing the service of entering the data?
I doubt they would tell her what order to enter the data.
Youth of any age may be employed at any time, in any occupation in agriculture on a farm owned or operated by their parent or person standing in place of their parent.
Be careful, one day you will be old and then it will all make sense to you! After 22 pages worth, I hope it hits you like a ton of bricks! Never say never!
If this employer is following the law, the school will have to be involved. There are papers that will have to be signed by you and the school, and probably the employer and maybe even the child. I guarantee the government takes those child labor laws very seriously. If he isn't following the law, send me his name and address so I can report him for hiring children to work for him! I don't know what the consequences could be for your side, but if caught I can guarantee the employer will regret hiring children to work for him. So you have to ask yourself, why would the employer take the risk? Does your child know how to defend herself against sexual harassment? If not, and you let her do this, you should make sure she can handle that!
I think it's funny that you won't assert yourself and talk to the employer. You are that child's guardian and her safety is YOUR responsibility. She can't work without your approval so do your job and contact the employer right now. Not to do so, would be stupid!
In other words, one day we will all be part of the discriminatory class so we will be likely to support it?
That sounds just as logical as why we should support tax breaks for a random income level because hopefully one day we will make that much money and will like the tax breaks rule.
Why does the school need to sign the papers too? Why can't it just be the employer and I?
And why are you so eager to report him? Do you enjoy tattling on people?
We didn't say we aren't going to talk to the employer. I asked awhile back if it would be tacky for me to do that and never got much input. I also asked for a list of questions I should be asking about and only got a few joke responses.
1. ANY drop in grades is unacceptable. If she's a solid B student with an occasional A, then a C is going to torpedo the job, in my book.
2. Because 1) she's a kid, and 2) if she's like every other 13 year old out there, she needs to be TAUGHT how to manage money, not just have wads of money thrown at her to spend on crap. It's never too early to start learning how to make and live by a budget and get into the habit of saving.
We use number grades here so we were wondering if a drop of a few points are OK?
Say from a 95% to 90%. Both would probably still be an A under your system.
What if she doesn't want to save money though? I can't picture how a child has much motivation to save for a new house, especially since that kind of low hours job wouldn't even make a dent in the expense.
Some companies try to avoid employment and tax laws by calling a worker an independent contractor. That won't work for a child or an individual who doesn't operate a business. FedX just lost a case in federal court at the appellate level for this same issue. One of the judges asked the question: If you call a dog's tail a leg how many legs does a dog have? The answer is four because calling a tail a leg does not make it so.
To call your daughter an independent contractor doesn't make it so.
If you treasure your relationship with that employer do not let them hire your daughter or call her an independent contractor. If the Fed or State agencies discover that they will be assessed significant civil money penalties. Although she is not likely to be injured doing data entry IF she should suffer serious injury in the course of her employment they could go to jail and children's services could be taking a long look at you. Just DON'T do it!
In the article the other poster linked to, they said the IRS' definition of "self-employed" included independent contractors and that those contractors were exempt from age restrictions.
Are you saying that's not correct?
How do you differentiate between the two terms then?
Either way though, I was thinking that if we will definitely be caught, could he just give me an item our daughter wants of equivalent value to the hours she should be "working" and then just label her "work" for him as volunteer work.
Would that keep our relationship with the employer intact?
Either way though, I was thinking that if we will definitely be caught, could he just give me an item our daughter wants of equivalent value to the hours she should be "working" and then just label her "work" for him as volunteer work.
Sure, go ahead and talk to the employer about that. I'm sure the employer would enjoy buying stuff for the kid and having a kid volunteer.
So wouldn't her job be doing the service of entering the data?
I doubt they would tell her what order to enter the data.
Are most data jobs contractors?
No, data entry is unlikely to be a service job. The employer is likely to govern the sequence in which the data is entered (some data might be higher priority than other data), they are likely to govern what time the employee starts working, stops working, length of breaks, time for lunch, etc. They're going to provide a workspace for the employee and have rules of performance conduct for the employee as well.
13 year olds in independent contracting positions would be very unlikely, as independent contractors have all of the skills to manage themselves and perform well with little guidance from the company that is doing the hiring. Most 13 year olds don't have these skills (hence is why they are living at home and in school).
And if you don't have kids, but most kids don't want to work for their parents.
Since when do children make life decisions? Not in my universe. That's the parents job. If working at home is more beneficial (which, of course it is), then that is what goes.
20yrsinBranson
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