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Old 12-15-2014, 07:30 AM
 
12,030 posts, read 9,344,722 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by K-Luv View Post
Why is it tolerated? Because we are Americans and pride ourselves on working hard even when we are hardly working


As someone who has lived across the U.S., I am a firm believer that residents from each individual State uphold certain characteristics and beliefs and attitudes that were present at the time when the State received statehood. The U.S. as a whole is no different.

Though they loved liberty, the original Settlers where heavily influenced by Puritanical Law, which dictated how one dressed, acted, and ultimately lived (this would be considered abhorrent by today's standards, but in 1700 they were a heckofalot more free than in the England they left). Google the history of Calvinism in the U.S. for more answers.

Puritanism waned significantly by the mid-1700s, but the hallmark of Puritanism--devotion to duty--has been ingrained into our collective psyche. No American wants to be a slave to their boss, but as you mention in your OP, that devotion to duty remains an Americanism to this day: regardless of social/political ideologies, we are devoted to our work, and those who work less then 35 - 40 hours/week are considered to by lazy by the majority.

According to the Harvard Business Review, executives, managers, and professionals work on average 72 hours per week when you include after-hours conference calls, emails, and other "urgent" business requests now made possible because of computers, email, and smartphones.
I agree with the concept of cultural values which cause people to accept the system as it is. And as clearly shown by some posters many go out of their way to defend the long work week where they basically work an extra day and half per week when compared to the Europeans.

The differences may also be related to maturity. European nations are older and have moved into a stage where benevolence to the worker is considered a good thing. The idea of exploitation does not sit well in some places.

And if we study history one can see that the USA is making similar progress, but it is simply behind Europe. The work week was longer in the year 1900, the average was about 60 hours.

Yes, culture is an important factor in accepting the long hours.
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Old 12-15-2014, 08:16 AM
 
Location: TN/NC
35,081 posts, read 31,313,313 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Julian658 View Post
Why do Americans that work 80-100 hours a week defend the employer and the system so much?

It seems they see the long hours as a badge of honor? Is this the result of brainwashing by the employer? I don't think a European worker would do that.
Most people and employers are far more reasonable than this. No one is going to work 80-100 hours/week long term and not be looking for something else.
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Old 12-15-2014, 08:52 AM
 
2,365 posts, read 2,840,533 times
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Mod cut: Orphaned (quoted post has been deleted).

Its not bad to value money. We work very hard for it & that's why we are considered world leaders. Sure some European countries might have better vacations, fewer work hours but they don't have cutting edge technologies or ivy league universities like we do. Look up how much an ipad costs in other countries. You have to be very rich to own an iphone in other countries but here even a fast food worker can afford the latest iphone. With rent control you don't have to be even middle class to live in a good apartment. Unemployment benefits, welfare, social services will help you out when you are struggling. We get to interfere in world politics, make decisions for others because we are the best. Sure we have some issues like healthcare & we should try to work on it, instead of complaining like spoilt brats.

Last edited by PJSaturn; 12-15-2014 at 10:36 AM..
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Old 12-15-2014, 09:37 AM
 
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Julian658, you make some good points. There's a lot the U.S. can learn from the Europeans. I wish more Europeans would come over here and teach in our public schools; our domestic teachers can barely read and write themselves, and we could use with an injection of the great appreciation of culture and history that Europeans possess.

But lest anyone forget, the prosperity that Europeans enjoy today is in no small part due to the entrepreneurial efforts of crazy Americans who took a chance on a wild idea that paid off, something that is relatively rare today in the Old Country.

The key competitive advantage the U.S. has over Europe is that Americans will do anything to make a buck, do business with anyone, try any crazy idea that comes along. Canadians have long noted that if someone has a good business idea, they traditionally have to come south to find an investor who'll back them. Similarly there are many stories of Europeans of humble origins who came to the U.S. and became business titans.

Remember also that prosperity is not universal in Europe. Try being a black person in France or Germany; they testify that it's easier to do business with Americans, who are more open minded about ethnicity. And there is a permanent under class in some European countries of mostly non-white people who simply can't find a permanent job and exist on the fringe. France has it bad, but there are several other countries with similar problems.

You also have to account for who exactly is working those long hours that go into those figures we see bandied about. We have a huge number of immigrants, and immigrants tend to work much longer hours, and hold down more jobs, than the average person.

Then there are professionals in the financial districts who work 8am to 9pm and sometimes on Saturdays as well; they're making low to mid six figure salaries with huge bonuses and they are driven by their financial goals. Who can blame them? I'd love to be making $300K a year and I would happily put in 80-90 hours a week to that end, as would many others, at least as long as my family and I could stand it!

Apprenticeship jobs such as junior lawyers and medical resident physicians who are on the learning curve will regularly work 80-90 hours a week, eager to acquire knowledge and experience and land a dream job in a few years.

Then there is the overall majority of people who pretty much work 9-5, five days a week for a moderately good salary.

I don't think you can really generalize that a large majority of American workers are being exploited. Maybe some minority are being exploited, such as illegal immigrants picking cotton and afraid to complain about their hours or they'll get deported. But overall, people are doing what people want to do.

Don't forget, there are also millions of people on the dole, receiving food stamps and housing assistance and Medicaid and WIC assistance. Some of these are working, some are getting unemployment compensation, and others are just hanging out on the street corners.

It's a huge country and generalizations are dangerous. I think it was De Tocqueville who said that anything that anyone can say about the United States is true
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Old 12-15-2014, 09:39 AM
 
7,927 posts, read 7,818,729 times
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Eh. Norway in itself also relies on oil for much of their finances. It hasn't done well now has it?

Much of Europe could take from taxes and provide for health care because frankly the USA defended it. Also remember the marshall plan was implemented. Europe is where much of WW 1 and WW 2 occurred and does still have terrorism as Norway did in 2011. From a US perspective Europe has some programs but from Africa it appears to be heaven. Which oddly is why years ago the EU made agreements with Libya to establish labor camps to prevent people from leaving.
How Libya kept migrants out of EU - at any cost | News | The Week UK
EU keen to strike deal with Muammar Gaddafi on immigration | World news | The Guardian
The EU's dubious refugee deal | Comment is free | The Guardian

You also have to factor in some of the other ethnic strife which goes well beyond what the USA usually sees. Catholic and Prostant in Ireland, Turks in Germany, Algerians in France (saw that myself while there), Bosnia with Srebranica, ETA every now and then etc. Separatism in Catalonia, Scotland maybe northern Italy.

it's hard to paint europe with a broad brush. The economy of Germany is much better then that of Spain and without question anything in the world is better then Bosnia (50% unemployment!). Just as in the USA there can be huge differences where someone lives. Access to public transit is much easier in the northeast then the midwest, same with higher education and so forth. Average of a whole country are inaccurate because frankly no one lives in the whole country.
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Old 12-15-2014, 09:55 AM
 
12,030 posts, read 9,344,722 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spencgr View Post
I'd choose US again and again.
I get it. We choose to defend what we have.

But, the issue is how due the governments see the working conditions of the average folk. And besides Norway there were three additional countries ahead.
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Old 12-15-2014, 09:58 AM
 
7,492 posts, read 11,830,974 times
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No, they're in denial, since the big business and big government can do whatever they want, so the people either deny everything that's going wrong in this country, or they pretend it's okay in order to suck up.
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Old 12-15-2014, 09:58 AM
 
9,879 posts, read 14,131,555 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Julian658 View Post
I get it. We choose to defend what we have.

But, the issue is how due the governments see the working conditions of the average folk. And besides Norway there were three additional countries ahead.
the top 10, really, are all the same.

And, personally, I'm glad I live in a country where the government doesn't get involved with employee benefits; as that has nothing to do with governing.

Ensuring people are safe - yes.

Ensuring a company pays someone for time that they aren't working - no.
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Old 12-15-2014, 10:02 AM
 
1,029 posts, read 1,301,996 times
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Yes. I bet if you took a quick poll, at least 50% wouldn't know what the EEOC is.
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Old 12-15-2014, 10:26 AM
 
6,985 posts, read 7,050,447 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spencgr View Post
Better benefits (more maternity leave, more vacation, fewer hours) directly equates to less money in your pocket.

Most Americans would rather have the money than the extra benefits. That way, they can choose what to do with their money, rather than being forced to use it on another week of vacation time or maternity leave for someone else.

Would you be willing to take a decent salary cut to get extra time off? Or do you just think the money to cover these added benefits just falls from the sky?
What is needed is an option for people in the US who prefer having more leisure time rather than more money.
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