Leaving academia. Do I have any options?

[Chaofan]

There are a lot of opportunities for people with STEM skills in the government, and not just in the labs and agencies that are obviously science-focused. DoD and the intelligence community agencies need people with good analytical skills, and some of them specifically seek people with science degrees. Look beyond the traditional science-related organizations and you might find just what you're looking for.

[germaine2626]

Originally Posted by Tuck's Dad

Most adjunct professors are paid between $3200-$3600 per 3 hour class - I have been looking into this as a second income during retirement. $2500 per class is low, but I have heard that figure for a certain for profit university.

4 classes x 3 Semesters (summer too) x 3200 is $38,400. Figure about 25 hours per week for that course load, and the OP cuts his hours more than in half, add another class per semester and he's just under $50,000 for about a 40 hour work week.

Yup, he would need to be a little aggressive to get that done, but it is not that difficult to do for a motivated individual.

Also, adjunct are frequently hired into full time positions at the colleges they are adjuncts at, so that is an additional upside to this option.

Thank you for the added information. It was helpful for me, and I'm sure the OP as well, to learn that my friend's low salary is the aberration and not the standard (and there may be other factors regarding why she is paid so little that I don't about).

Nevertheless, I totally agree that the OP should be able to earn a much better salary with far fewer hours of work at a different University or in a completely different setting.

[Lisah168]

I found it depressing that a person with a Ph.D degree in physics and many years of research/teaching experience is making barely above minimum wage with no benefits. If this is the norm rather than exception, it says a lot about our society and how we value education & science.
On the other hand, I would recommend you not to dismiss job opportunities in finance and technology companies. Older son graduated with a BS degree in Physics/Math with no programming experience other than mathematica. He did an internship the last summer before senior year at a financial institution and got hired by its technology department upon graduation. He loves his job and is taking computer courses towards a MS degree (paid for by his employer). In the hindsight, I am glad that he didn't purse a higher degree in Physics, but Jobs are out there. You should put some effort and find them.

[Coney]

Originally Posted by Forest_Hills_Daddy

Would you know which prep/private schools do this in the NYC metro area?

Yes, but this would not be helpful for the OP if he doesn't live in our area.

[Coney]

Originally Posted by Highlands_

Sounds like your friend and cousin hit the jackpot. I would still count Fermi lab and NASA to be apart of academia, so I wouldn't exactly say they 'got out'. If they managed to get these jobs right out of school, then I'll just say they are much better and capable physicists than I. In fact, I'd describe them as exceptional as you have to be to beat out all of the other applicants for the vanishingly small number of jobs at both places.



If you know of schools that offer part-time work during the weekends, I'd definitely be interested in such an opportunity. Unfortunately, there would be no way to fit this into my daily schedule on the business days.

Weekend work would have to be tutoring and test prep. In certain places they can pay well. There are certain schools that do have classes in the late afternoons, but that will depend on your location.

[404Error]

i know several phDs in the sciences that went to work for the govt. they do research for EPA and Agriculture. you'd most likely be a good fit.

[Native ny]

OP, given your career path so far and that you are certainly a geek, your natural strengths are most likely not in marketing yourself and your excellent credentials. Much good advice here, but I would like to chime in and stress that a head hunter or professional career coach may give you the one on one guidance you may need here to crack the code. It is a good investment, the insight you will gain may enable you to transition your skills to a more meaningful life's work. You will have to play the game regardless. Take some risk and extend yourself, what is the worst that can happen! ...and if you land standing up in a different but more rewarding academic career, it's still nothing to sneeze at. Every great scientist needs a great mentor... It can be very rewarding for teachers to see their students catapult past them... Best of luck, keep us informed.

[ackmondual]

@OP, sorry to hear your situation I've heard stories where academia is very interesting, but pays quite low. A CNBC documentary showed how many women in a Masters or PhD program will do escorting to pay the bills, while its their studies the something that they really enjoy. A friend who joined the Nay said a college professor also joined up. They cut him down to PT status, and he couldn't pay the bills with those hours. Luckily, education is very important in the Navy.



If you go into a federal job, make sure you read up or attend a workshop/seminar on how to do a federal resume. Unlike typical resumes, they range from 9 to 20 pages long, and need to be geared such that their buzz word crawling software will pick up the stuff to get you past the automatic filter. They do indeed take a long time. One person went on 9 interviews for the same position. Flipside is, it's very hard to fire you once you get the job, so they want to be extra, extra careful. Even if job titles aren't a direct match, you can still try to apply. For example, a shop keeper got a job doing some accounting-like thing b/c he used his reference in managing his own retail store and related to how that would apply to the position he applied for. DON'T DISQUALIFY YOURSELF! LET THEM DISQUALIFY YOU!

Perhaps consider working on a government contract, but as an employee of a company instead of a federal employee. For example, you're an employee of Northrop Grumman, Lockheed Martin, or SAIC, and your contracts may be that you have a government client (CDC, NASA, NIH, US Army, etc.). Those are easier to get in. Your lack of experience may be an issue, but AFAIK, your PhD, and your academic experience should be able to get your foot in the door. Also attend workshops and seminars on how to write resumes, cover letters, and how to apply. Check out career fairs too. None of these are hardly the silver bullet, but always be on the lookout to network. Plus, some job fairs have free resume critiquing services.

Originally Posted by mizzourah2006

Just saw this yesterday. I can tell you a strong analytical background and the ability to use software (R, SAS, SPSS, etc.) to turn data into solutions is blowing up in the private sector.


Turning Ph.D.s into industrial data scientists and data engineers - O'Reilly Radar

Ohh, podcast. Nice! I can listen on the road and leave reading time for other stuff!

[Highlands_]

This thread grew in the time I was gone. This was an incredibly busy week for me, so apologies if people feel I abandoned the thread.

Originally Posted by RVD90277

why don't you try applying to various positions at private companies? there are many physical phds in tech but most of them are engineers or work on hardware, etc. so they may not work specifically in the field that they studied.

Most of these positions are looking only for engineers, so I don't bother. If it doesn't specifically say 'PhD in physics' in the required or preferred education, I go with the reasonable assumption that I'm simply not qualified to do the work.

Originally Posted by germaine2626

This may be a dumb question, but I thought that rates for post-docs were standard across the United States. I had thought that $48,000 or $50,000 with health insurance and other benefits was the standard rate for someone in their second post doc position. Is your salary so low because you have published less research than other post docs? Or did you have difficulty getting a placement? Or were you somehow "taken advantage of" when they hired you?

You might be thinking of fields outside of science such as engineering and business, but this is not the case in physics. The average I believe is around 35K for a post-doc, which puts me at just under the average. Benefits are also the exception rather than the norm. My publication record is quite average, and definitely more papers+citations than my PI had when he was my age. The reason I attribute to the low funding is primarily due to the fact that our field of research (nonlinear dynamics) is not so established as others areas such as HEP, cosmology, condensed matter, etc. Also, there aren't many schools that do research in nonlinear dynamics, so those suggestions of finding a better position in academia aren't quite valid.

Originally Posted by germaine2626

Good luck to you.

Thank you.

Originally Posted by siobhandem

Most departments in the federal government that have nothing to do with NASA. For example, Bureau of Safety and Environment Enforcement oversees offshore drilling. They hire physicist, too, for looking at seismic testing. If you don't know anything about seismic, they will train you. PhD start at GS-11, about $60,000 or so.

I will definitely look into this, thanks. Just how competitive would you say these positions are, though?

Originally Posted by tjasse

its easy to get a job in finance with a Physics PhD.

This has certainly not been the case in my experience. Finance generally seems to be interested in physics PhDs from the top schools with incredible academic and research accomplishments. They have absolutely no interest in the average or even 'decent' physics PhD. This is what I've both heard and read from multiple sources, including one of the sites you suggest 'wallstreetoasis'.

Originally Posted by tjasse

For the short term solution or remedy, you should definitely look into private tutoring either online or locally (put ads everywhere, checks ads, send inquiries, ask all the folks that you know or meet etc). You should definitely cut back on the time you devote to your current job The PI may not like it and will try to put pressure on you but I think that it is not easy for him/her? to find competent, industrious academic slave like you!

I'd definitely be interested in doing some online tutoring, but I don't know how I would fit local tutoring into my already cramped schedule unless I let go of the cleaning job, which I don't think would be a smart move. Also, cutting back down on my work would significantly damage any chance of getting a good reference from him in the future, and there are unfortunately no shortages of people around the world who would love to be doing the work that I do for the same pay.

Originally Posted by tjasse

You should also search for a better replacement job preferably with something that you like to do or willing to do. Being a professor for an online university, a community college or a small university/college in a foreign country with better pay or in a lower COL area would be better than slaving away in your current job. The trade off is that you may not be able to do interesting research work but you may find that you will enjoy the new flavor of academic work in addition of being able to make a living.

Online university? I haven't thought of that and will look into it. But, from what I've seen, community college teaching positions are fiercely competitive and see hundreds of applications for a single posting. As for universities/colleges in a foreign country, this isn't an option for me right now as I'm trying to remain in the country.

Originally Posted by tjasse

For longer term solution, I'd highly recommend checking into Federal/State jobs. I don't remember the website but there is one where you can sign up and get notifications of job openings. Several of my siblings/friends had switched careers (either by choice or by necessity - early retirement/laid off etc) from private industry to State & Fed jobs. I was told that there are tests/exams that you can take and if you score high in addition to meeting the requirements, you are hired. The main trick in getting a Government job is to GET YOUR FOOT IN THE DOOR. Apply and try to get not only an entry level but even a job peripherally related to your field or interest. Once you are a Gov employee, you can ask for a transfer, take exam to get a job upgrade or a more suitable job. A friend of mine had his recruiting business shutdown few years back with online services, he wanted to get a job with Fed to add more service years to his previous work to qualify for retirement/health care benefit etc. He took a job working as a TSA worker being on his feet, checking/heaving luggage !! It was brutal for a person of his age with lots of business experience and education (he graduated years ago the top of his MBA class and ran a successful recruiting business for many years!). After few months, he got a much better job in the other coast (where he wanted to relocate).

Given the other extensive replies on working for the government, it seems a job at the government is a real and possible alternative. It is something I am most certainly looking into at this time.

Originally Posted by tjasse

Good luck with your job searches and career change.

Thank you for the well wishes and incredibly helpful advice.

Originally Posted by tnff

Ok, here's some of the straight skinny on getting Fed jobs. I am hiring physicists right now. While competition for some Federal jobs is intense, there are not near as many applicants for STEM positions as you might think. The basic STEM qualifications trim a lot out, and then the fact that, regardless of appearances, Fed pay is a good bit lower than industry for the same skillset/experience means it's hard to get qualified applicants. They typically don't leave industry to come here. So the competition really isn't as stiff as you might think.

From the sounds of this post, you seem to be interested in qualifications/skills that only those working in industry seem to possess. In that case, I'm sure that I am certainly qualified for one of the jobs you're hiring and wouldn't bother applying. If I can't get any industry job, I doubt a recruiter like you would have much interest in an absentminded academic who has spent too many years in the ivory tower.

Originally Posted by tnff

Next, whoever mentioned above at GS 14 is only partially correct. Most entry PhD jobs would be GS9/11 with full performance at the 12/13 level. There are very few at the 14 level and most of those, while perhaps listed as physicist or engineer, are really managerial positions. Now with your years experience, you might be able to come in at a higher level, but to gain entry you should be looking at anything from GS7 on up.

Good to know, thanks. Just one question: would my years in academia really be valued as experience when applying for these types of roles?

Originally Posted by tnff

It seems like someone has done a number on your self confidence making you think you are only qualified for exactly what you are doing right now. You need to broaden that understanding to your basic skill set. You are most likely far more qualified for a far more diverse range of work than you consider yourself for.

Over the years, I've contacted many recruiters spanning multiple industries that physicists supposedly work in (engineering, finance, software development, etc.) and the basic response was that I was not at all qualified for the work and that they were only interested in people with the relevant credentials (engineering, finance, computer science, etc.), so this feeling of being qualified only to work in my PI's lab is somewhat justified. Many didn't even know what physics is.

Originally Posted by tnff

Within the Fed, I'd suggest you also consider 801 General Engineer, perhaps some of the other engineer series, 1301, Gen Phys, 1310 Physicist, perhaps 1330. Also consider some of the mathematics and operations research positions such as 1501 & 1515. Many positions are interdisciplinary in nature and the evaluation standard allows for specific coursework and experience to qualify for the position. IE I am a physicist in an 861 Aerospace Engineer position and have held other position codes. My point is, don't limit your search to jobs that exactly match what you think a physicist is, but look beyond to what the actual duties and skill codes are. After spending some time looking at jobs and the job standards, you will know better what jobs match your background and you are interested in. BTW, be sure to look at for the .gov or .mil websites for personnel issues. There are a lot of outfits out there that will be happy to take your money for the same application information that is on the OPM website.

This is actually extremely helpful and encouraging now that you've identified yourself as a physicist. From my very limited experience with the job market, it seems credentials trump everything and the hiring people couldn't careless about skills but that you have the right degree for the right job. I'll definitely look into these government jobs, as they seem to care more about skills and knowledge rather than possessing a very specialized and obscure degree (i.e aerospace engineering).

Originally Posted by tnff

While knowing someone is of a slight benefit, for the entry level especially, there is less of that in the Fed than many people presume. In most cases those who assume that were really not qualified. Last job I hired had 10 applicants. Of them, 7 didn't meet the basic qualifications.

This is good news. Thank you for taking your time to make such an informative post, tnff. It is most definitely appreciated.

Originally Posted by signalfire

Check out the research institutes in San Francisco, Palo Alto and San Diego. They're begging for people with your background.

Hi Signalfire, can you give examples of these research institutes? Your post has certainly piqued my interest, as my ideal job in industry would be a research job doing work similar (not exactly the same) to what I'm doing now.