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Many of the people who are very vocal about the problems of the American worker regularly vote for the political party that backs the interests of stockholders and business owners, over the interest of workers. If they would stop doing that, unions would be flourishing and workers would have the kind of protections and salaries they used to have in the 1960s.
So you suggest that all jobs should be unionized? Employees can make more, but have to spend more to pay their union dues. Moreso than that, the protection that a union provides is that they make it almost impossible for an employer to terminate a bad employee. So now the employer has to pay $40/hr for someone to do menial work and give a half effort. There is no motivation for the employee to succeed since they know their job is safe. Because of the huge wage increases employers will have to raise the price of their products to maintain a profit. Overseas companies will benefit as they can import their products for a lesser price and eventually beat out the union companies. Employers will be more apt to push their jobs overseas to avoid the unions and maintain profitability or close their doors. It has nothing to do with who we vote for. It's the ideology that individuals subscribe to.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jukesgrrl
For example, Indiana used to be a state with many high-paying manufacturing jobs. But in 2014 the citizens of the state voted to reduce the influence of labor unions by making Indiana a "right to work" state. It is a provable, well-known fact that "right to work" laws suppress wages. Indiana's governor Mike Pence is now running for vice president. He is one of the people who supported union busting in his state. It's also a well-established fact that from 1980 to 2015 wages for the top 1% of earners in our nation grew 138%, while wages for the bottom 90% of earners grew only 15% in the same time period. The circumstances that invited that to happen were begun when Ronald Reagan was president and continued in successive times when the GOP was in charge of Congress and many state legislatures. Wage Stagnation in Nine Charts | Economic Policy Institute
For every "fact" you post regarding the benefit of a union, one can be posted to show the harm they can cause. Unions drive costs up. Companies must maintain profitability to stay in business otherwise why would they operate? If consumers make more great, but if they have to spend more because the price of goods has doubled what have we realistically gained?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jukesgrrl
Citizens who vote for union-busting, CEO-loving candidates, have no right to complain about low wages for working class people. I'm not accusing the OP because I don't know how that person votes. But I know it is true of others who continually vote against their own economic interests. A good way to understand this is to read What's the Matter with Kansas by Thomas Frank, a book that explains how conservative politicians went about capturing the support of the working class and then set about destroying it. https://www.amazon.com/Whats-Matter-.../dp/080507774X
You're right. They don't. They need to look for better paying jobs. Some people are content with making $15 an hour, and if they are that is great. But just because someone wants $30/hr to flip a burger does not mean it's worth that. People in those jobs who want to succeed know they need to better their skillset and move on to better paying jobs. The people that you hear complaining are usually the ones wanting something for nothing. Unions help give them that (as long as they get their piece of the pie.)
So you suggest that all jobs should be unionized? Employees can make more, but have to spend more to pay their union dues. Moreso than that, the protection that a union provides is that they make it almost impossible for an employer to terminate a bad employee. So now the employer has to pay $40/hr for someone to do menial work and give a half effort. There is no motivation for the employee to succeed since they know their job is safe. Because of the huge wage increases employers will have to raise the price of their products to maintain a profit. Overseas companies will benefit as they can import their products for a lesser price and eventually beat out the union companies. Employers will be more apt to push their jobs overseas to avoid the unions and maintain profitability or close their doors. It has nothing to do with who we vote for. It's the ideology that individuals subscribe to.
For every "fact" you post regarding the benefit of a union, one can be posted to show the harm they can cause. Unions drive costs up. Companies must maintain profitability to stay in business otherwise why would they operate? If consumers make more great, but if they have to spend more because the price of goods has doubled what have we realistically gained?
You're right. They don't. They need to look for better paying jobs. Some people are content with making $15 an hour, and if they are that is great. But just because someone wants $30/hr to flip a burger does not mean it's worth that. People in those jobs who want to succeed know they need to better their skillset and move on to better paying jobs. The people that you hear complaining are usually the ones wanting something for nothing. Unions help give them that (as long as they get their piece of the pie.)
I hear that a lot, but in many years of hiring and supervising union contractors, I found union workers to be highly trained, highly motivated and experts in their trades. They were the best of the best, and the only ones I saw dogging it were the guys who declined to move into management because it was a lot more hassle for not much more money. Productivity of union workers has never been a problem, and anyone who tells you it is has ulterior motives for bad mouthing unions.
The mantra of big money has always been, "If you don't like working here, go somewhere else." Without a union, that is the worker's only option. The 40 hour work week is already a thing of the past for non-union workers, and working conditions have steadily deteriorated. Employees are treated like disposable units. My state had to pass a law requiring all employers to provide 10 days of paid sick leave a year because unions are a thing of the past.
If you have the ability to monetize these skills, sure, go for it.
I'd bet patent law is a mess even for honest inventors. Small guys who have a nice invention probably struggle to navigate the system while the big dogs go into the express lane.
I'm not an inventor, but that's what I would see. If you're exceptionally talented, like Elon Musk, you can have a field day. The average inventor is probably still going to struggle.
I have been working on a patent application. It is a pain in the butt and to do it the way most people recommend is pretty pricey.
Unions helped not just those in the unions but the companies that were fearful of becoming unionized. To keep the unions out many offered better pay and benefits then they really wanted to, with unions on the decline they do not feel the need to protect themselves as much hence the worse conditions for workers we have seen over the past 2 decades.
I third that mantra. No one is going to take care of you butter cup. Invest in yourself and do your own savings. Quit whining and actually DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT.
Life's not fair. Get over it. Take care of your own retirement. No one owes you a retirement fund.
Exactly.... which is another reason I can't figure out why folks think Unions are their bread and butter. A union basically forces a company to give more. Employees feel like it is owed to them. To give more, you have to get more. And since productivity isn't going to increase exponentially if a union is established then the only other option is to raise prices.
By raising prices, companies have to still manage to compete in the market. So they either get by on a shoestring budget or close up shop. A lot of labor unions also work on a "last hired, first fired" basis when they have to let people go. So if Bob has been there ten years and is a semi-marginal worker and Joe (who is an exceptional worker) comes along Joe will get the axe first by default. Therefore people are not kept and promoted based on merit, but instead on tenure. Also, if someone with seniority gets bumped from their position they could potentially take a less senior person's job.
Unions remind me of political groups. Promising you the world if you sign on the dotted line but standing by to collect their dues and doing just enough to keep you roped in without adding any real benefit that one could achieve on their own if they work hard enough.
If unions performed annual reviews on their members and made sure they were held to the same productivity standards as companies hold non-union employees to then maybe there could be some merit there. But at the end of the day they don't.
I've never been a union member (but I have friends who are) and I've seen just as much success (or more) than they have. The difference is merely that I find opportunities on my own and have to work to keep my position. I can't coast on their coat tails and keep my job. I am forced to earn it every day. I think having that mentality and not becoming stagnant is the key to climbing the ladder. I couldn't advance nearly as quickly as I do now in a union because I would have to bump senior members, and we all know that can't happen in a union.
Location: RI, MA, VT, WI, IL, CA, IN (that one sucked), KY
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nlambert
Exactly.... which is another reason I can't figure out why folks think Unions are their bread and butter. A union basically forces a company to give more. Employees feel like it is owed to them. To give more, you have to get more. And since productivity isn't going to increase exponentially if a union is established then the only other option is to raise prices.
The modern employee is more productive than ever, and corporations are making record profits. What did the rank and file worker get for not having unions? They didn't get more money, wages have been flat in real dollars for 30+ years. They didn't get more job security. The employees produce more, so how have they benefited from this increased productivity?
The modern employee is more productive than ever, and corporations are making record profits. What did the rank and file worker get for not having unions? They didn't get more money, wages have been flat in real dollars for 30+ years. They didn't get more job security. The employees produce more, so how have they benefited from this increased productivity?
Yeah that sums it up. Really it's both do your best in life but also you do need to complain when you see a problem in the system.
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