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i think its more about the law and so people can bend the truth without repercussion except:
you cant be a professor if youre not a doctor.
you cant be an m.d. if youre not a doctor.
you cant be a lawyer without passing the bar.
you cant be an accountant without passing the c.p.a.
engineer is the only bachelors level professional degree so people abuse that privilege.
I'm asking because subs don't really do any teaching. They usually follow a plan left behind by the normal teacher. Most of the time, they just sit there as the kids do some kind of work sheet.
i agree but i'm not sure but i think by law they have to be teachers.
i think its more about the law and so people can bend the truth without repercussion except:
you cant be a professor if youre not a doctor.
you cant be an m.d. if youre not a doctor.
you cant be a lawyer without passing the bar.
you cant be an accountant without passing the c.p.a.
engineer is the only bachelors level professional degree so people abuse that privilege.
Low level engineers don't have to be anything more than bachelors. But if you want to be a real engineer and run projects, you have to be a PE.
Low level engineers don't have to be anything more than bachelors. But if you want to be a real engineer and run projects, you have to be a PE.
i think abet says that anyone who has a bse in an accredited institution is a professional engineer.
i think the exception is people with engineering-technician degrees can take the p.e. exam after working for 5 years in their discipline. (looking for source...)
i think abet says that anyone who has a bse in an accredited institution is a professional engineer.
i think the exception is people with engineering-technician degrees can take the p.e. exam after working for 5 years in their discipline. (looking for source...)
No. In order to take the PE exam, one has to have at least a BS degree in the engineering field of the PE exam. So, say one has a degree in electrical engineering, one cannot just sign up and take the PE exam for structural engineering.
In other words, if you have a 2 year technician degree you will not be allowed to take the PE exam. Yes, they do a check on you when you sign up. Then the state board will approve or not.
Added by edit.
I should also add that having these credentials does not automatically make one a good engineer. I had a temp that had a PE and SE last year. My straight-out-of-college guys performed 100x better than that dumbass.
Location: Somewhere gray and damp, close to the West Coast
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MetroWord
A few weeks ago, I went to a new job site out-of-state to take over a bridge project. It had just started a couple months when they lost the bridge engineer. With some incentives, they were able to convince me to go there to take over until they find someone else to take over it permanently. I have to live in a hotel room for the next 4-5 months or so.
Anyway, when I first went out there to look at my new project, one of the foremen came over. I introduced myself and told him I'm the new bridge engineer. He introduced himself and then told me he needed me to do some testing over there. Puzzled, I said again I'm the new bridge engineer. Puzzled, he said back yes and he needed me to go over there and take some soil density tests. I said again, no you don't understand I'm the new bridge engineer, meaning I'm your boss. Don't you guys have technicians to do these tests for you?
After the misunderstanding was cleared, it turned out down there in that state they call all the testers "engineers". I'm used to calling them test technicians.
Think about it for a moment. Garbage collectors are now sanitation engineers. Secretaries are administrative assistants or office managers. Door to door salesmen are account managers. Store clerks are product specialists. Cashiers are hospitality specialists. Toll booth collectors are now coin facilitation engineers. Try to guess what a petroleum distribution engineer does.
Heck, even customers are now called "guests".
With all the fancy titles flying around, are we creating a new generation of adult version of kids who got participation trophies?
Yep, I felt way more important as a "Health Unit Coordinator" than I did as a "Unit Secretary"!
There are many stories about the legal definition of engineer. In most states you can't call yourself an engineer unless you have a PE or your company has a collective agreement to call you an engineer. So an individual calling himself a "software engineer" who is working for himself and is not a PE is usually breaking the law. Civil engineers like the OP usually have a PE even when working for a big company due to having to sign and seal various documents.
Susan Faludi, in her book titled, Stiffed, wrote of the huge layoffs at McDonnell Douglas in California. At a mass gathering in the Long Beach unemployment center the orientation facilitator had asked the newly laid off employees to raise their hand in order that the state could count the numbers of engineers present, more than two thirds raised their hands. Puzzled, the facilitator was taken aside by another state employee and they huddled for a moment and then the question was reformed to ask for all those "degreed" engineers to identify themselves by a raised hand, this time only a mere ten per cent or so identified themselves as "engineers."
It seems that McDonnell had encouraged the use of titles to enhance the employees notions of their own importance. The title of engineer in the aviation world is clearly defined by FAA regs as to who can be considered legally accredited to provide an engineer's stamp to the work-plan paperwork which accompanies every plane through the build process.
Only those degreed engineers with the correct stamp may provide concurrence with other engineers instructions as to how they will proceed to correct problems in a manner consistent with FAA rework guidelines. McDonnell was titling people from drafting backgrounds, and planning backgrounds as "engineers," and the Long Beach press was shouting the news as "thousands of engineers" being laid off at McDonnell.
There are many stories about the legal definition of engineer. In most states you can't call yourself an engineer unless you have a PE or your company has a collective agreement to call you an engineer. So an individual calling himself a "software engineer" who is working for himself and is not a PE is usually breaking the law. Civil engineers like the OP usually have a PE even when working for a big company due to having to sign and seal various documents.
This is absolutely false. YOu need a PE to stamp drawing/plans etc, but in many professions(I would even say most) you do not need a PE and almost no engineer has a PE. For the most part a need for a PE is limited to working for the government and working in Civil/Environmental. I do not know where you get this stuff.
i think teachers need to be accredited in some way ?
They do, but that is becoming a muddy point. Where I live, post-secondary institutions have a degree program that prepares students to teach. After completing the degree, they are allowed to teach children in schools. The minimum time to achieve professional certification is 2 years full time employment. Three assessments are completed as well. Professional certification allows people to teach in any grade school anywhere in the world.
Then came the point that people who teach in post-secondary institutions are subject matter experts, but they don't have teaching skills. That led to the development of something called Instructional Skills Workshop. That is a condensed ~30 hour workshop that teaches people how to develop learning outcomes and present information based on curriculum mapping.
That is now going to a new level where post-secondary graduate students who want to teach can take a series of workshops to complete a certificate in teaching.
This is where it gets muddy, because some people think the post-secondary teaching certificate is equivalent to professional certification. There are people who have completed a MEd or an EdDoc, but this does not allow them to teach in schools because it is theory not practice. This group is not eligible for professional teaching certification.
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