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Maybe it's because I am a software engineer, and have worked in the industry for over 15 years, but I have noticed a certain surge in online blogs about good ways to "becoming a programmer fast". Now as a self taught programmer myself, I personally have never believed you needed a 4 year degree to become a competent software engineer. And that's not a debate I want to rehash here.
I recently joined a facebook group for self taught programmers. And it's a great and mostly positive site. But I've heard quite a few people say stuff like "I'm trying to learn Javascript/CSS. I'm a polysci graduate and there are like no jobs in my field right now". And I have an issue with this. To me, I think many people just think that they can learn a few skills in a few weeks and then somehow waltz into a programming job. And even if you could, do you really want to do something that you really don't even have an interest in? While developers can make really good money, it's usually offset by basically working 24x7, poor work life balance, lack of job security (but tons of career security), and the need to reinvest your time in learning new skills to stay competitive.
A lot of developers are usually some sort of investor, and it's not because developers are fiscally savvy. It's because realistically you're expected to only be at a company for 5 years max. And even if you go beyond that, chances are you're going to walk away from a job just due to general burnout. So having investments and enough capital to sustain yourself during needed downtimes is mandatory. You also need to constantly put time into learning new tech, and keeping things you don't work with day today fresh in your mind (like how to implement common algorithms, how to hand build data structures).
In general I'd say being a developer is very rewardeding, but I absolutely have a passion for what I do. I love tech and I live tech. I can't imagine being as successful as I am without having a love for my field. I do understand the market for non-tech stuff sucks. But I think if you love something enough (even polysci) you'll find a way to make a living doing it.
Agree. I am in IT and only learn the programming/software side to understand the basics of how things work. This new crop of IT & software people seriously lack troubleshooting skills and the ability to handle pressure of "delivering". On the IT side people don't realize that when the network is down or a server goes offline, you will have everyone from the CEO to the janitor calling, texting, and emailing you every 5 seconds asking "Did you fix it yet" These "skills" are only taught through experience and not a "bootcamp". If you don't have the natural curiosity, tenacity, ability to handle pressure and stress, and "passion" (hate that word) then you may be better served finding a new career path.
As someone who was a political science minor now working in IT, yeah, I don't think you can get up to speed in a couple week coding camp. You can get be taught fundamentals, but beyond that, further developing and leveraging those skills for business benefit only comes with experience.
Agree. I am in IT and only learn the programming/software side to understand the basics of how things work. This new crop of IT & software people seriously lack troubleshooting skills and the ability to handle pressure of "delivering". On the IT side people don't realize that when the network is down or a server goes offline, you will have everyone from the CEO to the janitor calling, texting, and emailing you every 5 seconds asking "Did you fix it yet" These "skills" are only taught through experience and not a "bootcamp". If you don't have the natural curiosity, tenacity, ability to handle pressure and stress, and "passion" (hate that word) then you may be better served finding a new career path.
We need to do a much much better job of differentiating the various technical roles. My company has backend engineers, full stack engineers, front end engineers, product managers, web developers and IT. Those people have different skills and different expectations.
None of those engineers need to deal with the internal network goes down. They don't deal with networking at al they build product. No one in IT deals with downtime on our app infrastructure and neither does the web developer. The web developer works on our website and doesn't deal with our product (a saas app). The front end engineers do not setup containers or servers - that is handled by the backend team.
Based on the fact not all engineers do the same things, why do we think skills are the same?
Maybe it's because I am a software engineer, and have worked in the industry for over 15 years, but I have noticed a certain surge in online blogs about good ways to "becoming a programmer fast". Now as a self taught programmer myself, I personally have never believed you needed a 4 year degree to become a competent software engineer. And that's not a debate I want to rehash here.
I recently joined a facebook group for self taught programmers. And it's a great and mostly positive site. But I've heard quite a few people say stuff like "I'm trying to learn Javascript/CSS. I'm a polysci graduate and there are like no jobs in my field right now". And I have an issue with this. To me, I think many people just think that they can learn a few skills in a few weeks and then somehow waltz into a programming job. And even if you could, do you really want to do something that you really don't even have an interest in? While developers can make really good money, it's usually offset by basically working 24x7, poor work life balance, lack of job security (but tons of career security), and the need to reinvest your time in learning new skills to stay competitive.
A lot of developers are usually some sort of investor, and it's not because developers are fiscally savvy. It's because realistically you're expected to only be at a company for 5 years max. And even if you go beyond that, chances are you're going to walk away from a job just due to general burnout. So having investments and enough capital to sustain yourself during needed downtimes is mandatory. You also need to constantly put time into learning new tech, and keeping things you don't work with day today fresh in your mind (like how to implement common algorithms, how to hand build data structures).
In general I'd say being a developer is very rewardeding, but I absolutely have a passion for what I do. I love tech and I live tech. I can't imagine being as successful as I am without having a love for my field. I do understand the market for non-tech stuff sucks. But I think if you love something enough (even polysci) you'll find a way to make a living doing it.
Where I live software engineers make pretty good money. The problem is that it caps at about 15 years if you aren't willing to go into management.
At 13 years into embedded software design, there are other occupations making more, but there are many more making less.
Agree. I am in IT and only learn the programming/software side to understand the basics of how things work. This new crop of IT & software people seriously lack troubleshooting skills and the ability to handle pressure of "delivering". On the IT side people don't realize that when the network is down or a server goes offline, you will have everyone from the CEO to the janitor calling, texting, and emailing you every 5 seconds asking "Did you fix it yet" These "skills" are only taught through experience and not a "bootcamp". If you don't have the natural curiosity, tenacity, ability to handle pressure and stress, and "passion" (hate that word) then you may be better served finding a new career path.
I would argue that upper and middle management have unreal expectations about what it takes to deliver good software, especially with companies that aren't entirely software centric.
I agree about the whole "coding" blog surge, which is merely a way to make the blogger money. Same goes for those kid's coding camps; parents drop bucks so they can brag to their friends that their kid graduated from Kiddie Koding Kamp while the rest of the kids were doing dumb person stuff like sports.
The reality is, a lot of people have no business around a hello world app and could never program their way out of a paper bag if you gave them directions. Today, lots of people are masters of using technology and start to think that they would therefore be good at creating it. That couldn't be farther from the truth. I used to get a lot of them after the dot bomb bubble blew and Y2K fizzed out. They'd have what looked like a decent programming resume, but actually had no way to apply their knowledge. It was a good learning experience for me, and it totally changed the way I interview people and find (and keep) the best talent.
As a technology manager (VP now), I probably have a more macro view than a programmer. I think what makes a great programmer or technical worker, in whatever discipline, is a person who is dedicated to solving very complex problems or working around difficult obstacles, and a person who is satisfied by very frequent accomplishments. If that person is able to learn and master the knowledge and technical part of whatever job it is, they will generally be satisfied by the job itself, regardless of whether they engage in any part of it outside of work.
My observation suggests that the best technical workers almost always have hobbies that require a great degree of skills and/or complex thinking, and offer an ongoing opportunity to learn and perfect the skills that make them good at whatever their hobby is. It could be sailing, skiing, flying, investment, photography, mechanical things, pretty much anywhere that they can compete against their own personal best, whether it's physically or mentally. There may be 100 ways to do whatever they are doing, but whichever way they pick, they're going to make sure they do it well. This is the same way they take on their career, even if it's unrelated.
I have seen, occasionally, where a person lives their job, or "does what they love". In my experience, most of them end up going away from it, either as a career or a hobby, but sometimes both. That doesn't mean you will.
As a technology manager (VP now), I probably have a more macro view than a programmer. I think what makes a great programmer or technical worker, in whatever discipline, is a person who is dedicated to solving very complex problems or working around difficult obstacles, and a person who is satisfied by very frequent accomplishments. If that person is able to learn and master the knowledge and technical part of whatever job it is, they will generally be satisfied by the job itself, regardless of whether they engage in any part of it outside of work.
More managers (and companies) need to realize this. When I see job postings that require specific languages (required, not preferred), that usually tells me they're looking for another cog for their machine.
It's even funnier when they want to see projects in GitHub that were developed personally for fun. My response is usually:
1. There's usually not much left in the mental tank if you've been solving problems all day to solve more when you get home
2. If there is anything left, most developers I know would rather log back in and finish solving the problem that they've already started
Plus, the last 3 developers who said they coded "for fun" actually sucked. Maybe they were doing it because they needed the extra practice.
I would argue that upper and middle management have unreal expectations about what it takes to deliver good software, especially with companies that aren't entirely software centric.
That's every company. There is no magic about engineering process. To close a sale, every company on the planet tells their development group to ignore the process and meet some end-date schedule. In the post-mortem after the customer goes nuclear about the poor quality of the delivery, it's always the same answer..... "If you don't follow the process, the quality goes to hell. You were told that."
I picked Electrical Engineering/Computer Science as a career in the late-1970's. I have the aptitude for it. I've always tried to be the strongest technical person in any company I've worked for. I've had some successful startups that made me some money. I've had some spectacular failures including one that made the cover of Business Week with a caption, "From Riches To Rags".
If I had infinite money, I would have been a history major as an undergrad. Since I had to earn my own way in life, I picked something that pays better and where I had the aptitude to excel. I have no huge love for engineering but my view is that work is what funds my lifestyle.
If you don't have the aptitude or the work ethic, going into engineering for the money is a disaster. You get wedged into some low level job and are stuck there for your career. The productivity difference between an A player and a C- player is enormous. That C- player doesn't ever see the raises and promotions. The C- person is the first on the layoff list. They're the first to be replaced by that H-1B contractor from Bangalore. They're fed all the lousy jobs nobody else wants to do. There are way better ways to earn a living.
We need to do a much much better job of differentiating the various technical roles. My company has backend engineers, full stack engineers, front end engineers, product managers, web developers and IT. Those people have different skills and different expectations.
Exactly. People also need to understand that learning to code does not make you a Software Engineer or Computer Scientist. Code is just the tool, the implementation of a solution.
Computer Science is a specialty of Mathematics, and Software Engineering is about applying science and math concepts to the development of new and novel solutions. Programming is just the method used to implement the ideas.
Programmers are used to implement others' ideas, and solve whatever implementation challenges pop up along the way. So that may pay a bit less and require experience in a particular language. But it won't really matter what your college degree is.
It would be nice if companies didn't throw around job titles like they're all the same.
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