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The sad thing is that this may have even been a pay cut. I've seen people leave doc review positions that paid $29/hour, where they could work as many as 60 hours a week if they wished leave for jobs that paid $35K because that was a "real job."
You were lucky to escape doc review. Often you have about a year or so before you become almost unemployable in other legal jobs and you become stuck in doc review, which typically give only very limited experience.
Yeah, in this case it was a jumping off point after which I moved into new roles. Document review had dead-end written all over it; but I can't really complain very much because the legal job market was so horrific in 2009-2010 that the $24/hr helped put food on the table and pay my rent with a little buffer for when I got laid off.
I was also lucky to get into several long-term projects, many other lawyers doing doc review weren't sure from day to day whether they would have work. That kind of volatility is one of the many reasons why document review is both a career killer as well as just bad for one's mental health long-term.
It would seem that a lawyer-turned-paralegal wouldn't need much training, though. So there wouldn't be as much sunk costs.
In my 20s I was friends with a group of women, some of whom got jobs as paralegals, and they had virtually no legal experience and maybe one semester of college. Personally, knowing what I knew about them, I wouldn't have hired them to work at most any job that required even a modicum of responsibility. If I were a lawyer, I would want someone with at least some training certificate from a paralegal program, as I'd be worried about un-experienced people screwing up my cases. But it's their career, their call so whatever.
Frankly, I want a paralegal that does what I tell him/er to do. The fear with some failed law grad is that they will think they have discretion when they do not.
In addition, paralegal work is usually not real legal work. It’s doing things like subpoenas, forms, and organizing document production. Law school doesn’t teach anybody any of that.
I'm 32. The only person I recall from high school or college who actually went through law school went to Vanderbilt and is an attorney for a city here in Tennessee.
He probably has a government pension and a cushy job, but I can't imagine it paying well.
06-19-2018, 08:22 AM
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n/a posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by vladlensky
^This.
I applied for hundreds of paralegal jobs in 2009-2010. Lawyers generally don't want to hire JD's to do paralegal work for a plethora of reasons. I was lucky to get a clerking job in law school, but it was $20/hr and wayyyy out in the country so had to do temp doc review instead for a princely wages of $24/hr. And this was in 2010, after nearly a year of unemployment, working as a volunteer at legal aid in order to at least try and build actual, real world experience (something you don't get in law school).
Let me tell you, there are few things more depressing in this life than spending 3 years in law school + studying and passing the bar exam with all your enthusiasm and idealism to get locked in a doc review dungeon 10hrs a day (sometimes more b/c OT) wondering what happened. Or better yet, getting laid off of a doc review project wondering what happened.
Good news, I had a lot of time to think and strategize, eventually escaped doc review - my first entry-level programming job full time for $50k + benefits felt like I won the lottery. By that time I had lost 5 years to the legal industry, and had a lot of catching up to do.
Law school is a gamble so plan carefully and make sure the deck is stacked in your favor.
Why did you not get real world experience in law school?
It's pretty well understood that you should work in at least one of the school's legal clinics and do some sort of summer associate gig, otherwise yeah, you have no experience and no one is going to hire you.
I'm 32. The only person I recall from high school or college who actually went through law school went to Vanderbilt and is an attorney for a city here in Tennessee.
He probably has a government pension and a cushy job, but I can't imagine it paying well.
I know two Vanderbilt law grads, just be sheer coincidence. One of them works in a kitchen in a restaurant. The other one lives at home with his parents. (He used to live with my friend who was his girlfriend at the time. She kicked him out because he didn't contribute to the household expenses). Both of these people graduated in the 2000s.
I know two Vanderbilt law grads, just be sheer coincidence. One of them works in a kitchen in a restaurant. The other one lives at home with his parents. (He used to live with my friend who was his girlfriend at the time. She kicked him out because he didn't contribute to the household expenses). Both of these people graduated in the 2000s.
So basically neither of them know how to apply themselves in any fashion??
Why did you not get real world experience in law school?
It's pretty well understood that you should work in at least one of the school's legal clinics and do some sort of summer associate gig, otherwise yeah, you have no experience and no one is going to hire you.
Thanks but no, volunteer clinics don't adequately prepare you for the ins and outs of real world legal practice.
While it may have changed in recent years, law clerk jobs were like hen's teeth, so most of us jumped at whatever was available regardless of whether it actually aligned with the area of practice we ultimately chose. Clerking for, say, a patent attorney does not give you a lot of real-world experience if you get hired at a real estate firm, other than the generalities of filing motions and such.
I still maintain that law school almost entirely worthless in terms of preparing you for the daily ins and outs of law practice. Practice manuals, relevant internships and ultimately feet-to-the fire work is what teaches you the basics.
Thanks but no, volunteer clinics don't adequately prepare you for the ins and outs of real world legal practice.
While it may have changed in recent years, law clerk jobs were like hen's teeth, so most of us jumped at whatever was available regardless of whether it actually aligned with the area of practice we ultimately chose. Clerking for, say, a patent attorney does not give you a lot of real-world experience if you get hired at a real estate firm, other than the generalities of filing motions and such.
I still maintain that law school almost entirely worthless in terms of preparing you for the daily ins and outs of law practice. Practice manuals, relevant internships and ultimately feet-to-the fire work is what teaches you the basics.
Really? Because based on your previous post, it sounds like you never actually did practice law beyond document review.
Turns out that you might have learned something that could have been useful to a potential employer by participating in a legal clinic where you do get to gain some hands on experience under the eye of a faculty member.
So basically neither of them know how to apply themselves in any fashion??
What's interesting is that Vanderbilt is a top ranked law school. It would be more understandable if they'd gone to some low ranked law school. But I've heard it can be hard even for graduates of top schools. With regard to the guy who lived with his parents, he was bright but basically a mooch who didn't want to apply himself. He was good looking and could live off women, too. When he lived with my friend she basically supported him and he'd borrow her car, using it to take other women on dates. She eventually kicked him out. He went to live with his parents. I think law school was simply a diversion for him. I wonder why a school like Vanderbilt would accept an older applicant with no work history, because that should have been a red flag. Since he did not apply himself at all, it's a shame that admissions spot went to him instead of someone else. I think the only reason he got a law degree was it could help him get laid. He doesn't seem to care about anything else. He is certainly not making any kind of contribution to society.
Thanks to too many worthless law schools, its a highly saturated field now.
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