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How do you think employers would react to an undergraduate degree strictly in systems engineering (I know of one such degree program that is offered by a prestigious university)?
I think it would be welcomed by companies looking for Systems Engineers.
All the hard core engineering is now done overseas, with mostly paper shufflers and MBA's left in the USA, plus a few rare traditional engineers left in some select companies. But I think what you may mean is what we called a engineering technologist, kind of guy that can do something in-between and versatile. Yes some companies hire them at reduced rates from the past, but I have seen that they are still in the US for now. I can't say it is ideal since it is half connected to traditional engineering in some companies, but might give you some years of work. Management tends to not like engineering at all, think GE, so many other companies (some I worked for that copied GE and laid them all off after establishing facilities overseas, end result often ending up with them out of business) and now even places like Boeing. Good luck whatever you decide.
All the hard core engineering is now done overseas, with mostly paper shufflers and MBA's left in the USA, plus a few rare traditional engineers left in some select companies.
I work in Aerospace so my experience say that is not the case. It may have to do with Export Controlled/ Defense technologies that not only they have to be developed in the US, but the people who work on them has to be US Citizens.
Many of Space technologies are being converted to Commercial these days. For example, SpaceX launches commercial satellites. Elon's another company, Tesla, manufacturers and sells electric vehicles (EV) as well as several other companies here in the US that design and manufacture EVs, including Ford & GM.
Another area is the semiconductor/ chips manufacturers are coming back to the US. Several plants are being built and I've seen existing companies placed ads looking for employees.
You seem to be knowledgeable about Systems Engineering. Why don't you give us a background & history of Systems Engineering?
I had saved my plastic templates from my flow charting and engineering days for many years as a reminder of pre-computer days. I also kept my slide rule. I recently got rid of all these tools that had been so essential in my early career days. However, I will never part with my HP-12C. I intend to be buried with it. There has never been a better calculator for multi-purpose calculations.
I've saved you the trouble of searching for the history of systems engineering.
"Since its inception, Systems Engineering SE has developed as a distinctive discipline, and there has been significant progress in this field in the past two decades. Compared to other engineering disciplines, SE is not affirmed by a set of underlying fundamental propositions, instead it has emerged as a set of best practices to deal with intricacies stemming from the stochastic nature of engineering complex systems and addressing their problems. Since the existing methodologies and paradigms dominant patterns of thought and concepts of SE are very diverse and somewhat fragmented. This appears to create some confusion regarding the design, deployment, operation, and application of SE. The purpose of this paper is 1 to delineate the development of SE from 1926-2017 based on insights derived from a histogram analysis, 2 to discuss the different paradigms and school of thoughts related to SE, 3 to derive a set of fundamental attributes of SE using advanced coding techniques and analysis, and 4 to present a newly developed instrument that could assess the performance of systems engineers. More than Two hundred and fifty different sources have been reviewed in this research in order to demonstrate the development trajectory of the SE discipline based on the frequency of publication."
The biggest problem you will have is if you don't have experience.
Employers don't hire people who don't have experience. They enforce the catch-22.
So if you do a career change, make sure your degree program has internships. Your internships are more important than any classwork you do, so if you have to delay graduation by 2-3 years to take more internships, that is advisable.
This. And through internships, you'll make some helpful connections in the industry, for your job searches.
Since someone mentioned MBAs above, what do you guys think about about degree programs that are '[insert engineering branch] and management' at undergraduate level? And I presume they're more advantageous in the case of industrial and systems engineering, right?
Since someone mentioned MBAs above, what do you guys think about about degree programs that are '[insert engineering branch] and management' at undergraduate level? And I presume they're more advantageous in the case of industrial and systems engineering, right?
IMO, you're better off by concentrating on a specific discipline of engineering and obtain the BS degree. After you get a job in that field and started working for a few years, THEN decide if your interest is in:
1) Continue to further technical discipline in Engineering, THEN go ahead to pursue a M.S. degree. Good news is most M.S. programs are offerred in the evening to accommodate the working professionals and companies will pay for the cost of continuing education.
2) Decide your interest is in the business side of Engineering, THEN go ahead to pursue a M.B.A. degree. Keep in mind, although most engineering companies will pay for your education, getting a MBA does not guarantee a promotion.
I've been through a MBA program and it does not add value in Engineering. It's not a magic ticket to get a high paying job unless you attend the top 10 MBA schools in the country, then get a job in Wall Street as a salesman peddling financial products to clients. In fact, an engineering company will reward you MORE if you get a M.S. degree in Engineering instead.
Same thing apply to a law degree. I've known several colleagues who in their mid-career went to school to get a law degree. But what they find out is, as a entry-level lawyer, they got pay FAR LESS than a mid-season Engineer. A friend could not even get a full time job as entry-level lawyer. Eventually, they ALL returned back to engineering full time.
3) If you are already in Project Management role, THEN getting a certification as a PMP will further your career MORE than, say; a MBA.
4) If you work for the government, THEN they don't care what your degree is in as long as you have an Advanced Degree. In that case, go for an EASY degree to as far as a Ph.D. Other than getting an easy degree in Underwater Basket Weaving, a self-respected engineer will focus on a good easy degree such as in either Industrial Engineer or Systems Engineering. This is your easy ticket to get promoted all the way to GS-15.
Since someone mentioned MBAs above, what do you guys think about about degree programs that are '[insert engineering branch] and management' at undergraduate level? And I presume they're more advantageous in the case of industrial and systems engineering, right?
If those degree programs have no internships, OR in the case of master's/PhD programs - no teaching assistantships in your field or no research assistantships in your field - then the programs are completely worthless because you will get hit by the catch-22.
Your internships/teaching assistantships/research assistantships are more important than any classwork you do, so if you have to delay graduation by 2-3 years to take more internships, that is advisable.
I would avoid law degrees UNLESS you can get into the T14 programs. There is such a huge glut of lawyers, that the overwhelming vast majority of them are stuck doing "doc review" as contract lawyers.
$20/hour, no benefits.
An example:
A document is on the screen. Is it relevant to the case at hand? Press Y for yes and N for No.
Mind numbing boring and you will never see a courtroom. And no amount of experience in doc review will get you into BigLaw with the six figure jobs.
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