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I'm sorry but state labor laws do not supercede the First Amendment. And "blacklisting" is a different issue almost entirely. People here are trying to claim that it's illegal to say anything except "X person worked here from this date to that date." People keep talking about all of these laws but so far nobody can cite even a single one of them.
I'm not a lawyer, however, I believe most states have laws on the books that state an employer cannot say anything about an employee that isn't legitimate and factually true---potentially gray areas. Which is why most employers are pretty tight-lipped. This is why I think references are pretty worthless, but that's another post.
I know that Maryland (where I am) has had several blacklisting cases in which a worker sued a former employer for interfering in his/her seeking gainful employment by giving bad references---and the courts have leaned towards the worker.
Yes, you do have to pay, but they are persistent. A former employer of mine had a nasty habit of hanging up on anyone he didn't want to speak to. I lost out on several jobs because of his refusal to take any reference check calls about me. Allison & Taylor was through and persistent, and eventually got through to the HR dept. They provided me with a detailed documentation of all their calls, who the spoke to, and when the called. If you can afford it, it's worth it.
Yeah you can never be too sure of what is being said about you. Even if you "think" you left on good terms, you can never be too sure about things and you cannot control what your former employer will say.
I once was suspicious a former employer might have been giving me a bad reference, so I created a phony reference check form by a ficticious company, and also included a stamped reply enevlope. I rented a P.O. Box to have it sent to. When they mailed it back they simply wrote on it "We only confirm dates" and they left all the questions blank. So at least I knew they weren't bad mouthing me. I think it's a good idea to find out exactly what former employers are saying about you. Most of them getting so they only confirm dates. If you can manage to get a manger to write a letter of reference on company stationary, it's a good idea. It's best to have it written "To Whom It May Concern" and make several copies of it for future use. I got a job where on HR saw such a refernce letter they counted that as a reference check. It's a good idea to have one in case things go South at a job and you wind up needing to change jobs, or if you think your current employer will be mad because you're looking for another job and give you a bad reference out of spite (and it does happen).
I'm sorry but state labor laws do not supercede the First Amendment. And "blacklisting" is a different issue almost entirely. People here are trying to claim that it's illegal to say anything except "X person worked here from this date to that date." People keep talking about all of these laws but so far nobody can cite even a single one of them.
I'm using Michigan because the OP lives or works in Michigan.
Michigan A previous employer is free to provide any non-confidential information about a previous employee, so long as it's true and isn't provided to maliciously harm the employee. An employer who provides false information that disparages the employee may be liable for defamation. In order to avoid potential liability, many employers often refuse to comment on a past employee's job performance and confirm only dates of hire and separation, plus wage or salary information. (MI Law §453.452)
Shall not disclose the information to any person, other than the applicant, who is not directly involved in the process of evaluating the applicant's qualifications for employment. A person who violates this subsection is guilty of a misdemeanor punishable by a fine of not more than $10,000.00, but is not subject to the penalties under section 1804.
Sec. 1230b.
[LEFT]
Potential employers often ask for permission to contact your past employers as part of the job application process. If you are applying for work in Michigan, past employers are free to disclose any non-confidential information about your job performance. However, if you feel a past employer has unfairly disparaged you, you have legal recourse through the civil court system.
[/LEFT] Freedom to Disclose
Michigan state law says that past employers can disclose any non-confidential employment information about you. That means that they can tell your potential new boss about your dates of employment, job duties, job performance, and how you fit in with others in the company. The past employer may not disclose any confidential information, such as the contents of your personnel file. Past employers may not disclose information maliciously. For example, they cannot give out negative information to purposely stop you from getting a different job
Now for the reality of it in different sectors of employment
Government employent -f you work in any tax supported position, like for the government and School Systems and others - everyone's record is deemed public information in a file and everyone incluing your mama and the local news has the right to review your file.
Priivate Sector Employment
At one time, the very first time in my employment years, I had a come on from one of the other managers. Even though it was frowned upon, my own boss encourgaged it. I just was blunt that I didn't date co workers. After this he copped an attitude with me that lasted years and and the Sales Manager who I was very good friends with started acting weird. There was such annomisity that developed and it spread to all departments for more than a year so, I felt is was time to go after 10 years and a job I loved doing. Sure, I certainly had all the information I needed to file a suit againt them - but didn't. The two primarly reasons were it would would put too many decent people in a rock and a hardplace to testifying what they knew and sullying their own resputations, hence getting fired or be the next on their crap list. I couldn't do that to those people. They were supportive, hardworker decent people and I couldn't do that to them.
When I applied for a new job - a lead a friend of mine had given me. I went in and we discussed the position and my interest in it. While an extremely male dominated field of work - I came from a company which was predominately male. After discussing the various aspect and compatibility to the position I was ready to say yes until....he said he was waiting back for a phone call from K and D. I said, excuse me, but why, I never worked for those people. Needless to say I didn't get the job because his boss had reservations about being exposed to a harassment suit. I'm no angel, but given my attitude and self esteem I could easily fend myself from trivial matters and return it as well and did not run if I heard a dirty joke - I could laugh and return one twice as bad.
Ironically, this company who didn't want to be sued as a reason for not giving me the job - was because I was a woman combined with whaterver K and D told him. I had him cornered in that it was blatant sex discrimination what he said to me, combined with my previous employer in a bitter back door style not in human resourses and what they said was just asking for a lawsuit there. I never filed or threaten to file againt anyone...I simply wanted out. Everything these people on both sides did - was basically break every law. I washed my hands of it and moved on. I ended up in a job that subcontracted some serives and delope new programs and there was my out 20 years later Mr.D came a crawling to this sector in the government and became a berrating response sick the truck driver for the projects and programs and equiment I implimented therefor he became my employee- he now worked as MY employee On projects he would grumble and get pissed over in my previous employment Yeah, it took a number of years - but Karma is a B*tch as they say. He who laughs first ended up laughing last
Human Resources people who were well trained about these rules, didn't just stop there their fe the employer/and manager. but any name. It was they wanted to discuss this is totally out of my league.
Why not just invite your former boss to lunch or coffee and ask them?
One of my old bosses took a new job, and on his last day I sat down and asked him his honest opinion of me. I told him not to hold any punches, because I wanted to know what to improve about myself. After that day we would never work together again, so he told me the truth. Some of what he said was good, and some was not so good, but he actually respected me more for asking him that question face to face.
I think people are confusing two separate things here. The first is a reference check where you give your potential employer 3 or so people to call and they comment on your character. Second is an employment verification. Your potential employer calls the past employer only to verify employment as in dates, job title and wage. HR would never say anything more than that. The only way that the potential employer will talk to your boss is if you list him/her as a reference, the company has no HR and he's the only one they can talk to. It is in the former employer's best interest to say the least possible.
I'd be curious about what my former employer says about me too, as I found out later...after I was laid off, my boss...who thought her job was at stake too, threw me under a bus to keep her job. In addition, I was off 9 months for medical leave, a couple months before my 3rd back surgery and for the 6 months after, so I wonder if whoever might get the call to give me a reference might slip a comment in about my medical leave.
That must have hurt to get tossed under the bus. That is amazing that you lived through it. Was the bus moving? And to think that you were only out 9 months for medical leave. I have seen accident victims that have been run over by cars not to mention being tossed under a bus. Many don't make it. And 3 back surgeries? Wow that must have been one horrific accident. I hope your company had good medical insurance to pay for your medical bills.
It would be had you actually taken the time to read it.
It basically says that while employers can legally say anything about you that is an honestly held opinion or a documented fact, many choose not to say much of anything beyond confirming job titles and dates in order to avoid lawsuits. There's no upside for them in saying anything about you after you've left.
This matches my personal experience with large employers. They won't say anything good or bad about you because it's not worth the risk for them. Few hiring managers expect to hear anything substantive from a former large employer.
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