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Oh please. It was COUNTRY music that I suggested had its roots in pre-existing forms of music (and therefore was developed and evolved - NOT INVENTED!!!) from the British Isles etc AND PROVIDED LINKS TO BACK THIS UP!! As, unwittingly, did Dr Knoble. I NEVER suggested Rock'n'Roll was not American but Knobby confused the issue by describing Elvis, Chuck, Buddy et al as ROCK MUSIC which did INDEED develop afterwards and simultaneously both INSIDE and OUTSIDE the US. And again I linked to about 10 Beatles songs which had NO APPARENT US INFLUENCE to support my argument. I could easily have gone much further with other examples from The Beatles and other bands. I am in NO WAY denigrating America's cultural achievements, just pointing out that other nations have contributed too which some people have a hard time understanding.
In·vent (n-vnt)
tr.v. in·vent·ed, in·vent·ing, in·vents
1. To produce or contrive (something previously unknown) by the use of ingenuity or imagination.
2. To make up; fabricate: invent a likely excuse.
Oh please. It was COUNTRY music that I suggested had its roots in pre-existing forms of music (and therefore was developed and evolved - NOT INVENTED!!!) from the British Isles etc AND PROVIDED LINKS TO BACK THIS UP!! As, unwittingly, did Dr Knoble. I NEVER suggested Rock'n'Roll was not American but Knobby confused the issue by describing Elvis, Chuck, Buddy et al as ROCK MUSIC which did INDEED develop afterwards and simultaneously both INSIDE and OUTSIDE the US. And again I linked to about 10 Beatles songs which had NO APPARENT US INFLUENCE to support my argument. I could easily have gone much further with other examples from The Beatles and other bands. I am in NO WAY denigrating America's cultural achievements, just pointing out that other nations have contributed too which some people have a hard time understanding.
Quote:
Originally Posted by pbobcat
Oh and Dr Knobby
In·vent (n-vnt)
tr.v. in·vent·ed, in·vent·ing, in·vents
1. To produce or contrive (something previously unknown) by the use of ingenuity or imagination.
2. To make up; fabricate: invent a likely excuse.
Bobby, you're just further proving my point that you don't understand the meaning of invention, even with the definition right in front of your face. Invention is to produce something new and previously unknown using pre-existing influences. NOTHING in the history of world invention spontaneously appeared from nowhere.
Your flawed understanding of this BASIC concept is why you're probably the only person in the world who can't comprehend that rock, country, etc were invented in the USA.
You're an unfortunate example of how common sense is not common.
Even though I'm not ridiculously pro-America by any stretch, I dipped my toe in and was immediately told that I was an America-boosting moron by someone who insists that the very things that America gets flack for exporting to other countries, aren't actually American. As far as I'm concerned, this thread was over some time ago, and it wasn't just because of some America boosters...
When jeans can't possibly be American because the cloth - not the style, not the cut, but the material - were invented in continental Europe, and rock and roll can't possibly be American because it was a distant evolution of English/Welsh folk music and African slave songs over many generations, but "rock" music can be quintessentially British and have absolutely no relation to America whatsoever despite its roots in rock-and-roll because it was recorded in England, I know that there's no point in continuing the argument.
I understand that at some point or another there was an attempt to make the point that cross-pollination of different cultures can occur, but that got lost in a mad rush to denigrate specific Americans by mocking America's cultural achievements as a whole, and with that, the entire argument turned to slop.
Same you can look at many other threads and it shows i boost canada, uk heck and even south korea.
Same you can look at many other threads and it shows i boost canada, uk heck and even south korea.
According to people in the politics section, I'm a soulless commie wannabe European. I have very strong criticisms about the US, but I give it credit where it's due.
I have extremely strong criticisms about Japan - an unforgiving and soul-sucking prevailing work culture that requires one to give familial allegiance to your company and treats people who quit jobs as untrustworthy pariahs in need of atonement; a spiraling birth rate as a result of the expectation that one will put their career and the sake of the company before themselves and their families or be left behind in an unfulfilling, mediocre job; some weird-ass Peter Pan-like sexual repression... but for every one of those criticisms, I can come up with things like a cultural sense of oneness and duty to one's fellow citizen; a government that actually works for its people and provides jobs in public works to maintain a functioning, clean, and beautiful nation while keeping citizens employed; an arts industry that embraces creativity and uniquness at the same time that it commodifies it; a sense that it is not only mandatory, but necessary, to take vacations to decompress from an astronomically stressful life - things that the US has largely failed at.
This is no different from the critical light in which I view America - criticism can be a healthy component of love as much as a blinding component of hate. As such, I'm more than happy to discuss the positives and negatives of Americanization, because there are many, and I can do so lucidly.
Decrying Americanization as a non-existent figment of the imaginations of arrogant Americans when Americanization is a well-documented phenomenon that has been discussed, observed, debated, embraced, and resisted among sociologists, anthropologists, historians, philosophers, and politicians all over the globe for over a century to the point that it's become enough a piece of the popular lexicon that my computer doesn't show "Americanization" as a typo while it does show "commodifies" and "commodification" as such, shows a towering level of ignorance that takes some effort to embrace.
When one further takes into account the fact that these discussions are generally cast in a very negative light and ultimately would play much better into their own arguments against American cultural imperialism and arrogance as demonstrable fact rather but instead is just poo-poo'ed as the fantastical fabrication of poorly-educated American solipism, it shows a towering level of personal hubris. I tend to shy away from discussions with people who are driven by hubris.
Now if you'll excuse me, I'm going to go drink a liter of nitric oxide, creatine, and boron and go hit the gym... FOR AMERICA
According to people in the politics section, I'm a soulless commie wannabe European. I have very strong criticisms about the US, but I give it credit where it's due.
I have extremely strong criticisms about Japan - an unforgiving and soul-sucking prevailing work culture that requires one to give familial allegiance to your company and treats people who quit jobs as untrustworthy pariahs in need of atonement; a spiraling birth rate as a result of the expectation that one will put their career and the sake of the company before themselves and their families or be left behind in an unfulfilling, mediocre job; some weird-ass Peter Pan-like sexual repression... but for every one of those criticisms, I can come up with things like a cultural sense of oneness and duty to one's fellow citizen; a government that actually works for its people and provides jobs in public works to maintain a functioning, clean, and beautiful nation while keeping citizens employed; an arts industry that embraces creativity and uniquness at the same time that it commodifies it; a sense that it is not only mandatory, but necessary, to take vacations to decompress from an astronomically stressful life - things that the US has largely failed at.
This is no different from the critical light in which I view America - criticism can be a healthy component of love as much as a blinding component of hate. As such, I'm more than happy to discuss the positives and negatives of Americanization, because there are many, and I can do so lucidly.
Decrying Americanization as a non-existent figment of the imaginations of arrogant Americans when Americanization is a well-documented phenomenon that has been discussed, observed, debated, embraced, and resisted among sociologists, anthropologists, historians, philosophers, and politicians all over the globe for over a century to the point that it's become enough a piece of the popular lexicon that my computer doesn't show "Americanization" as a typo while it does show "commodifies" and "commodification" as such, shows a towering level of ignorance that takes some effort to embrace.
When one further takes into account the fact that these discussions are generally cast in a very negative light and ultimately would play much better into their own arguments against American cultural imperialism and arrogance as demonstrable fact rather but instead is just poo-poo'ed as the fantastical fabrication of poorly-educated American solipism, it shows a towering level of personal hubris. I tend to shy away from discussions with people who are driven by hubris.
Now if you'll excuse me, I'm going to go drink a liter of nitric oxide, creatine, and boron and go hit the gym... FOR AMERICA
Well dang, I like this and agree with it's substantive offering.
According to people in the politics section, I'm a soulless commie wannabe European. I have very strong criticisms about the US, but I give it credit where it's due.
Thats because they see your location, the evil liberal cesspool blue state of California where 100% of the population is Gay, Obama voting, illegal immigrant hippies.
According to people in the politics section, I'm a soulless commie wannabe European. I have very strong criticisms about the US, but I give it credit where it's due.
I have extremely strong criticisms about Japan - an unforgiving and soul-sucking prevailing work culture that requires one to give familial allegiance to your company and treats people who quit jobs as untrustworthy pariahs in need of atonement; a spiraling birth rate as a result of the expectation that one will put their career and the sake of the company before themselves and their families or be left behind in an unfulfilling, mediocre job; some weird-ass Peter Pan-like sexual repression... but for every one of those criticisms, I can come up with things like a cultural sense of oneness and duty to one's fellow citizen; a government that actually works for its people and provides jobs in public works to maintain a functioning, clean, and beautiful nation while keeping citizens employed; an arts industry that embraces creativity and uniquness at the same time that it commodifies it; a sense that it is not only mandatory, but necessary, to take vacations to decompress from an astronomically stressful life - things that the US has largely failed at.
This is no different from the critical light in which I view America - criticism can be a healthy component of love as much as a blinding component of hate. As such, I'm more than happy to discuss the positives and negatives of Americanization, because there are many, and I can do so lucidly.
Decrying Americanization as a non-existent figment of the imaginations of arrogant Americans when Americanization is a well-documented phenomenon that has been discussed, observed, debated, embraced, and resisted among sociologists, anthropologists, historians, philosophers, and politicians all over the globe for over a century to the point that it's become enough a piece of the popular lexicon that my computer doesn't show "Americanization" as a typo while it does show "commodifies" and "commodification" as such, shows a towering level of ignorance that takes some effort to embrace.
When one further takes into account the fact that these discussions are generally cast in a very negative light and ultimately would play much better into their own arguments against American cultural imperialism and arrogance as demonstrable fact rather but instead is just poo-poo'ed as the fantastical fabrication of poorly-educated American solipism, it shows a towering level of personal hubris. I tend to shy away from discussions with people who are driven by hubris.
Now if you'll excuse me, I'm going to go drink a liter of nitric oxide, creatine, and boron and go hit the gym... FOR AMERICA
Great points. I welcome all constructive criticism of America because that's the only way to bring progressive change. What I can't stand is unrelated and unfair knee-jerk US bashing, which apparently has become a socially accepted norm within the international community.
This embraced anti-American culture is the reason why you can't have a constructive debate on Americanization without first hearing that this frequently studied and discussed phenomenon doesn't exist, and that arrogant Americans are secretly trying to force the concept upon the world.
Great points. I welcome all constructive criticism of America because that's the only way to bring progressive change. What I can't stand is unrelated and unfair knee-jerk US bashing, which apparently has become a socially accepted norm within the international community.
This embraced anti-American culture is the reason why you can't have a constructive debate on Americanization without first hearing that this frequently studied and discussed phenomenon doesn't exist, and that arrogant Americans are secretly trying to force the concept upon the world.
Nobody is suggesting that the US hasnt given the world anything but to call the world Americanised is just not accurate - A lot of Americans (not all) DO seem to think that if it wasnt for the US the world wouldnt be eating pizza, wearing jeans, listening to popular music, driving cars, living in a world of consumerism, speaking English etc and this is just not true. I think you have to ask yourself how different the world would be if there was no such thing as the USA and the answer is yes it would be different but no it wouldnt be 'that' different. The USA has given the world some wonderful things but the world is not Americanised or Britishised or Inianised or Argenitnianised - it is however a globalised world! :-)
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