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I have heard that Germany has the most advanced and powerful military within the EU. Have no sources on it, and not sure how much weight it carries, but I know it has been talked about here before.
I found most things much cheaper here in the Netherlands than the US(approx. a factor 2 - 3x) and much better quality too but prices of groceries vary a lot throughout Europe. Germany is even cheaper than the Netherlands.
I think the distorted view Americans have on Europe comes either because they lived on a military base where they more or less continue their American lifestyle and have access to subsidized food. Or because Americans are generally unable to visit Europe because of their living standard, the weak dollar and having only 2 weeks holiday per year so most of the things they know about Europe is just hearsay.
You don't see that many American tourists over here and if at all, they are nearly always retired couples exactly because of the reasons I mentioned: they have time off and the money to travel here. And these tourists usually visit the very expensive tourist places like London, Paris or Venice so the word spreads quickly in the US that 'Europe is expensive'.
Really, most of the things written here by Americans about Europe are just ludicrous. What will they come up with next? That healthcare is better and cheaper in the US?
Drro, every statistic shows that the Moderator cut: link removed, linking to competitor sites is not allowedNetherlands has a cost of living index which is much much higher than the United States. In fact, the cost of living there is higher than Canada, which is generally considered a very expensive country for Americans. That everything is 2-3x more expensive is just statistically speaking, nonsense. Even the inequality argument doesn't make sense:
We could settle it once and for all if you offered some examples of housing that is 2-3x more expensive in the US than similar housing in the Netherlands. Pick a random town in the Netherlands like Groningen, Eindhoven or Nijmegen and compare the housing prices to random places in America like Fargo, Orlando, Bakersfield. Why can't you provide any evidence that everything is 2-3x more expensive in America? Probably because you can't. No evidence, just trolling, right? Americans are better off financially, period.
I have heard that Germany has the most advanced and powerful military within the EU. Have no sources on it, and not sure how much weight it carries, but I know it has been talked about here before.
No, France or Britain has the most advanced and powerful European military, by a long shot.
Just how expensive are the German cell phone plans? In the United States I pay $75 a month for a single line with unlimited talk, text and 2GB of data for my smart phone. Verizon has the largest and most extensive 4G LTE coverage, more than the next 3 leading companies combined actually.
Plans in Austria (Drei):
Unlimited texts, talk and data. 42 Mbit/s download/ 5 Mbit/s upload. 50€ a month (most expensive plan out there).
1000 texts, 1000 minutes talk and 2GB data (technically unlimited data, but 2GB at full speed) would be 20€ a month. (comparable to yours)
Cheapest one costs only 10€.
Plans in Germany (T-Mobile):
Unlimited texts, talk and data cost 50€. No unlimited LTE, though.
Germany probably has the most expensive plans in Europe...
Drro, every statistic shows that the Moderator cut: link removed, linking to competitor sites is not allowedNetherlands has a cost of living index which is much much higher than the United States. In fact, the cost of living there is higher than Canada, which is generally considered a very expensive country for Americans. That everything is 2-3x more expensive is just statistically speaking, nonsense. Even the inequality argument doesn't make sense:
We could settle it once and for all if you offered some examples of housing that is 2-3x more expensive in the US than similar housing in the Netherlands. Pick a random town in the Netherlands like Groningen, Eindhoven or Nijmegen and compare the housing prices to random places in America like Fargo, Orlando, Bakersfield. Why can't you provide any evidence that everything is 2-3x more expensive in America? Probably because you can't. No evidence, just trolling, right? Americans are better off financially, period.
Ooh, those statistics will put a huge dent in any further argument he provides.
Drro, every statistic shows that theModerator cut: link removed, linking to competitor sites is not allowedNetherlands has a cost of living index which is much much higher than the United States. In fact, the cost of living there is higher than Canada, which is generally considered a very expensive country for Americans. That everything is 2-3x more expensive is just statistically speaking, nonsense. Even the inequality argument doesn't make sense:
You may want to reread my last post and work on your reading comprehension, I was talking about groceries being 2 - 3x as expensive, not everything. Your whole further argumentation is already flawed.
Lets look at average income
- US: 46k $
- Netherlands 39k $
Now, lets factor in that in the Netherlands people work 24 - 40 hours per week vs. 40 - 80 hours, sometimes in multiple jobs in the US(Obama had a nice speech on this recently). In the Netherlands people have 5 - 8 weeks of paid holidays, in the US 2 weeks (either paid or unpaid). We have unlimited paid sickdays, in the US you have 5 paid sickdays, after that you are on your own. We have much better paid unemployment benefits. Oops, now it does not look so good any more, it appears we Dutch earn more after all per hour worked.
Now, lets look at costs of living. The Big Mac index or some other US biased measure indeed says the US is the cheapest country in the world. Now, lets put in the cost of healthcare, education, medicine or groceries. For example, studying at a US university costs you 20k - 40k $ per year whereas in Germany it costs 500 euros per semester, so 1000 euros per year. I bet they conveniently didn't measure that when they said the US is the cheapest western country in the world. The same applies to healthcare. That's why people with a certain degree of education know there are 'lies, damned lies and statistics'. You can put together any statistic to prove anything you want. You are very gullible if you believe all these statistics.
Since you are fond of statistics, here is another one you may like, despite us Europeans being 'poor' according to your standards, we are the happiest people in the world.
Now, PLEASE provide me with a statistic that says the US has cheaper education than Europe or cheaper and better healthcare than Europe and I will not stop laughing for a week.
You may want to reread my last post and work on your reading comprehension, I was talking about groceries being 2 - 3x as expensive, not everything. Your whole further argumentation is already flawed.
Lets look at average income
- US: 46k $
- Netherlands 39k $
Now, lets factor in that in the Netherlands people work 24 - 40 hours per week vs. 40 - 80 hours, sometimes in multiple jobs in the US(Obama had a nice speech on this recently). In the Netherlands people have 5 - 8 weeks of paid holidays, in the US 2 weeks (either paid or unpaid). We have unlimited paid sickdays, in the US you have 5 paid sickdays, after that you are on your own. We have much better paid unemployment benefits. Oops, now it does not look so good any more, it appears we Dutch earn more after all per hour worked.
Now, lets look at costs of living. The Big Mac index or some other US biased measure indeed says the US is the cheapest country in the world. Now, lets put in the cost of healthcare, education, medicine or groceries. For example, studying at a US university costs you 20k - 40k $ per year whereas in Germany it costs 500 euros per semester, so 1000 euros per year. I bet they conveniently didn't measure that when they said the US is the cheapest western country in the world. The same applies to healthcare. That's why people with a certain degree of education know there are 'lies, damned lies and statistics'. You can put together any statistic to prove anything you want. You are very gullible if you believe all these statistics.
Since you are fond of statistics, here is another one you may like, despite us Europeans being 'poor' according to your standards, we are the happiest people in the world.
Now, PLEASE provide me with a statistic that says the US has cheaper education than Europe or cheaper and better healthcare than Europe and I will not stop laughing for a week.
Drro, none of this is what you've claimed, and I have never claimed that healthcare or education is cheaper in the United States. My argument, once again, is that everything is not 2-3x more expensive in the US as you have consistently asserted on multiple threads. Furthermore, I have never claimed at any time that Europeans are poor, If you can find me saying this please point it out. You on the other hand, claimed that America is a "very poor country". All the statistics show the United States is one of the richest countries in the world, and it is generally regarded as such. If you can offer anything proving that America is a "very poor country", I would be interested to see it. But to claim that the cost of living is lower, or that everything costs 2-3x more in the United States goes against all statistical data. Working less, or receiving government benefits does not factor into cost of living, or the claim that everything costs 2-3x less in the Netherlands. All of your claims are either wrong or grossly exaggerated - like the claim that the Dutch earn more per hour worked. If I may suggest it, I would advise you to take a class on economics.
Healthcare and education are variables that may greatly vary depending on someones personal preferences. For example, yes Drro, university can cost 20-40k a year in the US, but for the vast, vast majority of college educated Americans this is not the case. We could also say that a car can cost you 100,000 but that would be a gross misrepresentation of what most people will drive. It cost me about 8,000 a year with a full-time schedule to get my university degree from a D2 school. If it cost 20-40k a year for college, the average graduates would have over 100k in student loans. Instead, this is the most extreme case - although it no doubt exists. So if you are from California and are accepted to attend the most prestigious New England ivy league school as an out-of-stater, yes, in this extreme case university can cost 40,000 a year. Only people with the highest marks and large sums of money to spend will opt for this route. The average, or even well above average American is not going to go this route because it simply makes no sense whatsoever, when you can spend a few thousand a year at your in-state school. You have taken the extreme and presented it as a normal fact.
The healthcare situation is similar to education. It is possible to spend great quantities of money on healthcare, and it is possible to spend none at all. It's up to the individual. To claim that getting ill costs $10-100,000 as you have before makes no sense. Most Americans like me spend a little more than $1000 a year on healthcare. When we get injured or seriously ill, the insurance covers most or all of the bill. $1000 a year is nowhere near 10-100,000 dollars. I am not going to be one to argue that our healthcare system is great or efficient, but it must be said that your characterizations are exaggerated and misinformed. Paid sickdays and leave is similar Drro - it depends on where you work. Some people get long vacations, others get short vacations. Usually those who are older and in more senior positions get longer vacations, and new worker s get shorter vacations. Either way, it depends on where you work, and has nothing whatsoever to do with your claim that cost of living in the Netherlands is 2-3x lower than in the United States.
As for happiness, this has nothing to do with cost of living. There are all kinds of happiness surveys placing different countries as the happiest. But Drro, do you truly believe that happiness can be measured? Do you believe that those making these charts have actually found the source of happiness? Here's one that says Australia is the happiest. Here's one that says Colombia is the happiest. And here's one that says Indonesia is the happiest, and India the second happiest. Why are the conclusions so diverse? Because happiness can't be measured like money can. Happiness and quality of life are all relative and based on opinion. Economics on the other hand has to do with mathematics. 2+2 always equals 4, it's not a matter of opinion. Either way, this has nothing to do with cost of living. I am still waiting for your data that suggests the cost of living is 2-3x higher in the US than in the Netherlands.
It seems that you are jumping from topic to topic desperately trying to prove Europe is better than the United States in anyway possible. If you believe Europe is better, that's your opinion, and I respect that. But to claim that everything is 2-3x more expensive in the US is simply nonsense, as are most of the claims you have made. My assertion is that Americans enjoy a lower cost of living, and have provided a plethora of statistics and studies to back this up. You, on the other hand have claimed that "Everything in the Netherlands costs 2-3x less than in the United States, and have provided a grand total of zero statistics or studies to back this up. Instead, you proceed to make extreme claims of hours worked, happiness charts, and healthcare and education. I await to see your evidence that supports your claim that everything in the US costs 2-3x more than in the Netherlands, but I won't hold my breath.
Now, PLEASE provide me with a statistic that says the US has cheaper education than Europe or cheaper and better healthcare than Europe and I will not stop laughing for a week.
Education is free in America, so that's tough to beat lol. When it comes to universities, if you go to a university in your state, you get in-state tuition, which is very cheap, plus you can get financial aid (most people qualify) and some may even get a free ride and then some extra money for housing.
Healthcare is expensive as hell in America. However, the quality of it is terrific. I saw a report (don't have the link anymore) that shows success rates for different diseases per country. America was #1 in every single disease. The problem is some people cannot afford health insurance, so it's a catch 22. I lived a few years in Australia and I actually support a universal healthcare system similar to the ones in Europe and Australia. I would like a system similar to America's school system where you have free public healthcare and private insurance for private doctors for those who want premium care. I pay $310/month for health insurance and have a $1,500 deductable. Once I spend $1,500 in one year, I only have to pay 20% of my medical costs for that year.
Once again, everything is NOT black and white as many people here tend to believe on both sides of aisle!
Education is free in America, so that's tough to beat lol.
No, it isn't. People pay big $$$ to live in a neighbourhood with good primary schools. Unthinkable over here.
Quote:
When it comes to universities, if you go to a university in your state, you get in-state tuition, which is very cheap, plus you can get financial aid (most people qualify) and somemay even get a free ride and then some extra money for housing.
State universities suck(with a few exceptions) and for my liking there are a few too many uncertainties in your statement(which I conveniently marked bold for you).
Quote:
Healthcare is expensive as hell in America. However, the quality of it is terrific. I saw a report (don't have the link anymore) that shows success rates for different diseases per country. America was #1 in every single disease. The problem is some people cannot afford health insurance, so it's a catch 22. I lived a few years in Australia and I actually support a universal healthcare system similar to the ones in Europe and Australia. I would like a system similar to America's school system where you have free public healthcare and private insurance for private doctors for those who want premium care. I pay $310/month for health insurance and have a $1,500 deductable. Once I spend $1,500 in one year, I only have to pay 20% of my medical costs for that year.
Once again, everything is NOT black and white as many people here tend to believe on both sides of aisle!
There are around 50 million people in the US without health insurance, many more that are under insured and even those that are insured pay big $$$ for treatment. I have heard first hand Dutch people having to pay 8500$ in the US for giving birth despite having 'full health insurance' from their employer. Unthinkable over here. Don't even get me started on health care in the US.
@hobbes: Don't put words in my mouth that I never said and make a coherent story. I don't have the time to reply to all that.
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