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Hobbes is right though....of course St. Johns and Quebec City are old. But they had a small fraction of what was going on in the US and didn't develop in tandem with the US as you are claiming. St. Johns was a tiny fishing village. You are looking at the settlement date of Canadian towns and calling that developed. Sure Quebec City was founded in 1608 and decades later still only had a few hundred people. Not really what I would call developed. IIRC Hobbes is a former Canadian resident who is a history teacher at a US university so it's likely he knows what he's talking about when it comes to this subject.
To be fair, you picked the only examples in Canada that are quite isolated and still seem really distant from the USA anyways. If all of Canada had some sort of congruency to the culture of St. John's, no one would think the two countries are similar, which doesn't help your anti-tandem point.
Oh, and Hobbes is an American who spent a year or so in Quebec learning French, who teaches at a community college. Not quite the same thing.
Last edited by Rozenn; 07-12-2015 at 03:43 AM..
Reason: Orphaned
To be fair, you picked the only examples in Canada that are quite isolated and still seem really distant from the USA anyways. If all of Canada had some sort of congruency to the culture of St. John's, no one would think the two countries are similar, which doesn't help your anti-tandem point.
....Fusion brought up those two examples. I agree with you entirely. St. Johns and Quebec are among the worst examples anyone could pick to show congruency between the US and Canada.
Last edited by Rozenn; 07-12-2015 at 03:44 AM..
Reason: Off topic
....Fusion brought up those two examples. I agree with you entirely. St. Johns and Quebec are among the worst examples anyone could pick to show congruency between the US and Canada.
I know, but any other cities in Canada would have some sort of developmental similarities is my point. Even if they USA is older, there were still people about in Canada on a smaller scale. The lull of development in Canada is very small looking at it from the bigger picture.
I know, but any other cities in Canada would have some sort of developmental similarities is my point. Even if they USA is older, there were still people about in Canada on a smaller scale. The lull of development in Canada is very small looking at it from the bigger picture.
That was really my point and especially the further you go back with various first nations groups - it wasn't to say Canadian settlements/towns/cities were bigger just that settlements did occur around the same time in the grand scheme of things and yes - I stick by what I said about tandem development especially over the last 200 years.
That was really my point and especially the further you go back with various first nations groups - it wasn't to say Canadian settlements/towns/cities were bigger just that settlements did occur around the same time in the grand scheme of things and yes - I stick by what I said about tandem development especially over the last 200 years.
The fact that you think the presence of native people in Canada counts as "Canada" developing says it all. The native peoples of Canada were not Canadian. They were completely foreign people who were conquered, mostly exterminated, and forced against their will to accept Canadian rule. If you returned to 1500 and asked an Ojibwe how he felt to be Canadian he would ask what exactly is a Canada or a Canadian.
I find it really interesting that a country that almost all French in 1776 when Americans became independent now somehow resembles America so much. And remember that someone in St. Johns wasn't even Canadian until the 1940's, the word Canadian only meant the equivalent of "Quebecois" or "Acadien" until British settlers started colonizing them and copying American culture. Your view of Canadian history is so off the rails and revisionist that it's almost laughable.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jesse44
I know, but any other cities in Canada would have some sort of developmental similarities is my point. Even if they USA is older, there were still people about in Canada on a smaller scale. The lull of development in Canada is very small looking at it from the bigger picture.
Well hopefully this time you won't tattle on me for espousing views that you don't agree with.
The fact that you think the presence of native people in Canada counts as "Canada" developing says it all. The native peoples of Canada were not Canadian. They were completely foreign people who were conquered, mostly exterminated, and forced against their will to accept Canadian rule. If you returned to 1500 and asked an Ojibwe how he felt to be Canadian he would ask what exactly is a Canada or a Canadian.
I didn't say they were Canadian - I referred to the land as Canada to provide a point of reference. What am I supposed to call present day Canada and present day U.S - majuja? Call the lands what you want but the fact is they have been settled and occupied for thousands of years and there are plenty examples of tandem development.. You're cherry picking and splitting hairs to advance your own narrative that there has been no tandem development between the two lands over time.
Quote:
Originally Posted by modernrebel
I find it really interesting that a country that almost all French in 1776 when Americans became independent now somehow resembles America so much. And remember that someone in St. Johns wasn't even Canadian until the 1940's, the word Canadian only meant the equivalent of "Quebecois" or "Acadien" until British settlers started colonizing them and copying American culture. Your view of Canadian history is so off the rails and revisionist that it's almost laughable
I don't know why you keep fixating on titles instead of focussing on people, cultures and settlements over time.
In red - no I think your perspective is off the rails - not my views.
I could see your reaction to things if I said post first nations cultures in Canada developed in tandem with the Egyptian and Mesopotamian civilizations.
I didn't say they were Canadian - I referred to the land as Canada to provide a point of reference. Indeed people in that land did develop in tandem with first nations people in present day U.S..
Do I really need to explain why that is completely irrelevant? It isn't as if the first nations were building cities that were conquered by the B.E. They were tribes who moved around and rarely built permanent structures of any kind. Canada was completely undeveloped until they were conquered and European settlers came. Is this really a revelation to you?
Quote:
Originally Posted by fusion2
I don't know why you keep fixating on titles instead of focussing on people, cultures and settlements.
Really? I am talking about actual settlements, development, and culture. Canadian culture in 1776 was as different from American culture as Mexican culture is today. Canada had hardly any development until the later 1800's and even then it was focused solely on the area around Montreal. The US was far more developed in every conceivable way and the land was settled a lot earlier in almost every case. That's the truth that anyone with a basic knowledge of world history will tell you.
Quote:
Originally Posted by fusion2
In red - no I think your perspective is off the rails - not my views.
Then you disagree with ever Canadian historian ever. This is really basic historical facts about our country.
Do I really need to explain why that is completely irrelevant? It isn't as if the first nations were building cities that were conquered by the B.E. They were tribes who moved around and rarely built permanent structures of any kind. Canada was completely undeveloped until they were conquered and European settlers came. Is this really a revelation to you?
I don't know why you keep fixating on titles instead of focussing on people, cultures and settlements.
In red - no I think your perspective is off the rails - not my views.
You were the one who admitted that the cultures and peoples of the first nations were largely decimated by Europeans (true).. How do you know what type of civilizations, cultures, structures these people had and how developed they were or how much integration these first nations peoples had between the two lands that are presently Canada and the U.S? Sounds to me like you are being dismissive of first nations culture and development as dismissing this as irrelevant.
Quote:
Originally Posted by modernrebel
Then you disagree with ever Canadian historian ever. This is really basic historical facts about our country
In red - how so? As a result of saying there has been a lot of tandem development between the U.S and Canada over time? How is this revisionist? Even if we ignore first nations people - there is still a lot of tandem development between the two, particularly the last 150-200 years (which for two countries minus first nations that have only been settled about 400 years is really the most important and relevant to our modern day lives) - I didn't say they were exactly parallel. Not sure why you are trying to claim I am going against historians by saying there is tandem development between the two.. I didn't say exactly parallel development every step of the way. How do we know there is a lot of tandem development - LOOK at the two nations today...
I could see you getting all hot and bothered about this stuff if I claimed Canada and Egypt had a lot of tandem development... Perspective man!!
Yeah, yeah, that's a favourite line of homophobes. "Differing views" lol. As if that phrase cleans up what it is.
The ironic thing about you calling me a homophobe constantly is that I am gay myself and served in the military. Meaning I have extensive experience on the subject.
Maybe you should consider respecting different viewpoints on subjects and giving a chance to seeing things from other people's views instead of resorting to name calling and personal attacks. It's so ironic that in Canada the ones who claim to be the most tolerant are the ones who are the most intolerant.
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