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i am not claiming China is at the same development level as US or EU. I just want to point out that the size of China's economy is overtaking US. What is bias about that? Even so, US is still 4 times rich than China due to the difference in population.
Quote:
Originally Posted by boxus
Sure, the US pays more for a haircut, but the an individual in the US makes a whole lot more money in the US than a perosn in China. So as a percentage of pay, that hair cut costs much less.
Again, largest auto market, ebery user, etc; all because the the aggregate of over 1 billion people, on an individual level, China is quite poor. China is the largest exporter thanks to EU and US companies, not because of anything China has done, they simply supplied the mass amount of cheap labor, and the US and EU supplied the technical means to make numerous products using low skilled labor.
I am not degrading China at all, but I think it is much of a stretch to somehow equate China politically, economically, and socially on the level of the US and EU; China is not even close, they have a ways to go and secveral mountains over.
Given your post hsitory of favortism towards China, I see you do have a bias in your opinions, but this bias is getting in your way of really seeing the issues in China and where China stands politically, economically, and socially. While I could have the bias of being in the US, I have zero issue calling out the US and EU out on things that need to improve (and thigns that are great), and their ranking in regards to global comparisons.
I need to remind you that China is the bigger buyer of luxury goods in the world. Paris and London depend on the Chinese shoppers for their stores. The most expensive real estate markets are filled with Chinese investors.
Infrastructure? Shanghai and Beijing have each built the largest metro system in the world within 20 years.
China has the longest high speed train network in the world. US is even turning to China for the high speed train technology.
Talk about education? Please check the world renowned PISA test. Shanghai ranks the top spot, while US is lagging behind. Do you even want to talk about the health care system in the US?
Yet many Chinese risk it all to leave China and get to the US and EU... If it was such a paradise, you want not have so much legal and illegal immigration out of China, peple setting up baby birthing places in the US so Chinese babies can be born here with US citizenship, Chinese investing in other countries to obtian residential rights, etc.
The building of the high speed rail is no different than the Soviets being the first to put a man into space, great and all, but hardly a reflection of the reality on the ground.
And again, you aggregate everything, for some reason not addressing the individual. The individual gdp ranks down near 100, not much purchasing power the average Chinese has, this is like Russia bragging about how many billionaires moscow has, hardly a reflection of realty for most people in Russia.
What about education? The US has the best education in the world. Chinese flock to US universities. The innovaiton coming out of the US is not matched anywhere. As for the PISA test, why just Shanghai? Why not all of China?
As for medicine, please, Chinese hosptals are for the most part, horrible and way behind the times. Sure, there are a few modern ones and bright spots, but for the most part, venture away form modern zones and you run into poorly trained doctors, holistic practices, old tech, poor maintained facilities, and an overall attitude of "why the f$%k are you here", along with having to bring your own supplies in many cases, as well as families having to bring supplies for you if you are hospitalized.
i am not claiming China is at the same development level as US or EU. I just want to point out that the size of China's economy is overtaking US. What is bias about that? Even so, US is still 4 times rich than China due to the difference in population.
This was my point; the aggregate ecnomic size is not at all a reflection of reality for the individual. China on an individual level is quite poor. To an individual, their lot in life is the one that maters, not the total number thrown together.
This is like the household income item here in the US, a household being anyone making money over the age of 15; nice and all, but what does that say about the individual? You would have to dive into the average household size, blah blah. However, the US gov on all levels love talking about household income because the numbers are bigger when they do that.
This was my point; the aggregate ecnomic size is not at all a reflection of reality for the individual. China on an individual level is quite poor. To an individual, their lot in life is the one that maters, not the total number thrown together.
This is like the household income item here in the US, a household being anyone making money over the age of 15; nice and all, but what does that say about the individual? You would have to dive into the average household size, blah blah. However, the US gov on all levels love talking about household income because the numbers are bigger when they do that.
Well, I don't think that's such a good analogy. Most households in the U.S. are still dominated mostly by a single income.
Household income gives a fairly good indication of the economic status of households - which are of course made up of individuals who benefit from that income (although no indicator is perfect).
China is poor on individual level. I beg to differ. China is huge. It has developed area and underdeveloped area. It is like talking about Europe. Is europe rich or poor? Germany is rich, but Romania is poor.
It is same in China. You cannot simply generalize something about China. The majority of the families in Beijing or Shanghai own their property, many without any mortgage. That alone will make millions of Chinese families millionaires (in USD).
Quote:
Originally Posted by boxus
This was my point; the aggregate ecnomic size is not at all a reflection of reality for the individual. China on an individual level is quite poor. To an individual, their lot in life is the one that maters, not the total number thrown together.
This is like the household income item here in the US, a household being anyone making money over the age of 15; nice and all, but what does that say about the individual? You would have to dive into the average household size, blah blah. However, the US gov on all levels love talking about household income because the numbers are bigger when they do that.
You do realise that Asians represent more than 30% of the students in Ivy League, with Chinese the largest group.
Quote:
Originally Posted by boxus
Yet many Chinese risk it all to leave China and get to the US and EU... If it was such a paradise, you want not have so much legal and illegal immigration out of China, peple setting up baby birthing places in the US so Chinese babies can be born here with US citizenship, Chinese investing in other countries to obtian residential rights, etc.
The building of the high speed rail is no different than the Soviets being the first to put a man into space, great and all, but hardly a reflection of the reality on the ground.
And again, you aggregate everything, for some reason not addressing the individual. The individual gdp ranks down near 100, not much purchasing power the average Chinese has, this is like Russia bragging about how many billionaires moscow has, hardly a reflection of realty for most people in Russia.
What about education? The US has the best education in the world. Chinese flock to US universities. The innovaiton coming out of the US is not matched anywhere. As for the PISA test, why just Shanghai? Why not all of China?
As for medicine, please, Chinese hosptals are for the most part, horrible and way behind the times. Sure, there are a few modern ones and bright spots, but for the most part, venture away form modern zones and you run into poorly trained doctors, holistic practices, old tech, poor maintained facilities, and an overall attitude of "why the f$%k are you here", along with having to bring your own supplies in many cases, as well as families having to bring supplies for you if you are hospitalized.
China is poor on individual level. I beg to differ. China is huge. It has developed area and underdeveloped area. It is like talking about Europe. Is europe rich or poor? Germany is rich, but Romania is poor.
It is same in China. You cannot simply generalize something about China. The majority of the families in Beijing or Shanghai own their property, many without any mortgage. That alone will make millions of Chinese families millionaires (in USD).
China is poor on the individual level, I fail to see with access to the Internet how you do not realize this, being obtuse is what you are doing. Even in your example, Romania is a distinct country, and Romania still is richer on the individual level than someone in China. We are tlkaing individual countries, yet you want to state "Europe", while jsut including China. Same issue with the PISA test, jsut a city, yet not the whole country, while other's are the entire country.
The majority of people in many places in the world own their own property, your point? From the poorest to the richest, this is hardly unique.
Europe is vastly wealthier than China, only a few countries rank lower than China in per capita (like Albania and Ukraine). It is laughable you are even comparing the standards of Europe to China.
China ranks low just because it has a huge rural population. China does have more population than the entire Europe. Do you think it is fair to compare China and some small country like Spain?
China has nearly as many millionaires as Europe, or America.
The arguments that you have raised just show how ignorant you are about China
Quote:
Originally Posted by boxus
China is poor on the individual level, I fail to see with access to the Internet how you do not realize this, being obtuse is what you are doing. Even in your example, Romania is a distinct country, and Romania still is richer on the individual level than someone in China. We are tlkaing individual countries, yet you want to state "Europe", while jsut including China. Same issue with the PISA test, jsut a city, yet not the whole country, while other's are the entire country.
The majority of people in many places in the world own their own property, your point? From the poorest to the richest, this is hardly unique.
Europe is vastly wealthier than China, only a few countries rank lower than China in per capita (like Albania and Ukraine). It is laughable you are even comparing the standards of Europe to China.
Well, I don't think that's such a good analogy. Most households in the U.S. are still dominated mostly by a single income.
Household income gives a fairly good indication of the economic status of households - which are of course made up of individuals who benefit from that income (although no indicator is perfect).
What is wrong with stating individual income then? Because it would lower the overall number. It sounds much better to state "our city has an average household income of $48k a year", then to state "our city has an individual average income of $38k per year".
It is not a great indicator as housing is the single largest expense, and merely stating household income does reflect the ecnomic status; they could be roommates unable to afford to live alone, three generaiotns crammed into a house, etc. While this is off topic, I jsut made the statement to show that aggregating numbers can give perceptions that are many times not reflective of the conditions of the individual.
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