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Old 08-12-2012, 07:33 PM
 
7,908 posts, read 19,872,490 times
Reputation: 7322
countryway ...

Happy in Wyoming has this pegged spot on.

The economic realities of today dictate that every small business must have a client base with enough disposable income to support their survival. Your now detailed wish list of wants in a town (esp medical) is contrary to the economic survival of of the merchants, if not a lot of the community itself.

I see the reality of this decline in so many small towns that I travel throughout this territory. With the advent of personal affordable transportation, the "mom and pop" _______ store as an independent stand-alone business no longer can afford to operate. The competition from the larger regional economic centers is overwhelming them, and has done so for decades. I'd bet that you can trace the decline in agrarian/ranching communities as economic centers to a few years post WW2 when electricity and roads were brought into the area. Many formerly active small communities became nothing but bedroom communities of convenience to other industries or the larger cities not too far down the road; a quick trip along the old highways fronting I-80 or I-25 through some of them will show you the conditions today.

I see so many devastated several block long "downtown" areas of small towns, or in the even smaller communities, the few blocks of commercial centers that are vacant, boarded up, abandoned, and decrepit. Many don't even bother to post a "For Sale" sign in the window anymore because there is no marketplace for a buyer for the property; I've seen a few beauties that were pennies on the dollar compared to retail storefronts in Cheyenne or Casper that do not have any buyer. Even at their very low price point, nobody can make a living operating a retail store in this location serving the local community of ranchers/farmers. Ranching was always a marginal profit business at best in it's heyday, and today's business/labor climate and costs of operation make the margins even slimmer. Wyoming, in particular, has a long history dating back to territorial days of eating up family fortunes and spitting them out after attempts to make all that easy money in ranching.

Unless there is an upscale retirement or tourist community in the area, these locations are long done.

You are correct that Ft Collins has long abandoned it's ag & ranching basis to development, industry, and farming. Much traceable to it's lack of ag water in the face of the demand for front range cities and exploding Colorado population base.

As Happy observed ... what you want doesn't exist in this area any longer.
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Old 08-12-2012, 08:14 PM
 
Location: Auburn
1,942 posts, read 1,894,298 times
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No a few that have sold in Star Valley because it as not as friendly to Ag as it once was. They moved to the Worland area, Bear Lake Id and the noth end of Chache Valley Ut -Id or more on the Idaho side.
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Old 08-12-2012, 10:46 PM
Status: "Save a life; carry a gun." (set 8 days ago)
 
Location: Cody, WY
4,599 posts, read 3,342,812 times
Reputation: 7043
Quote:
Originally Posted by sunsprit View Post
countryway ...

Happy in Wyoming has this pegged spot on.

The economic realities of today dictate that every small business must have a client base with enough disposable income to support their survival. Your now detailed wish list of wants in a town (esp medical) is contrary to the economic survival of of the merchants, if not a lot of the community itself.

I see the reality of this decline in so many small towns that I travel throughout this territory. With the advent of personal affordable transportation, the "mom and pop" _______ store as an independent stand-alone business no longer can afford to operate. The competition from the larger regional economic centers is overwhelming them, and has done so for decades. I'd bet that you can trace the decline in agrarian/ranching communities as economic centers to a few years post WW2 when electricity and roads were brought into the area. Many formerly active small communities became nothing but bedroom communities of convenience to other industries or the larger cities not too far down the road; a quick trip along the old highways fronting I-80 or I-25 through some of them will show you the conditions today.

I see so many devastated several block long "downtown" areas of small towns, or in the even smaller communities, the few blocks of commercial centers that are vacant, boarded up, abandoned, and decrepit. Many don't even bother to post a "For Sale" sign in the window anymore because there is no marketplace for a buyer for the property; I've seen a few beauties that were pennies on the dollar compared to retail storefronts in Cheyenne or Casper that do not have any buyer. Even at their very low price point, nobody can make a living operating a retail store in this location serving the local community of ranchers/farmers. Ranching was always a marginal profit business at best in it's heyday, and today's business/labor climate and costs of operation make the margins even slimmer. Wyoming, in particular, has a long history dating back to territorial days of eating up family fortunes and spitting them out after attempts to make all that easy money in ranching.
World War I signalled the death of small towns everywhere. It wasn't the war; it was the coming of the automobile. Local merchants no longer had captive buyers; people could get to larger towns and cities. Some years ago I was traveling west to Denver on I-70. I saw a very old sign advertising US 40 as the shortcut to Denver. Just for fun I decided to take it. I drove through several towns that were either partly or completely abandoned and once past Sharon Springs, Kansas, site of one of the absolute worst meals I ever ate, saw virtually no other cars. That's rural.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jody_wy View Post
No a few that have sold in Star Valley because it as not as friendly to Ag as it once was. They moved to the Worland area, Bear Lake Id and the noth end of Chache Valley Ut -Id or more on the Idaho side.
That's not what he wants.

Quote:
Originally Posted by countryway View Post
We really desire a traditional, family-based Wyoming culture, if we move there. A conservative, ranching/equine community, low key/slow pace near mountains and not too far from a city.
Quote:
Originally Posted by countryway View Post
...we want a community that is not progressive, and upwardly mobile...a traditional Wyoming and Western society and culture. We want a simple, country/agrarian life, that is in or near a town that has medical resources and some shopping.
I never knew people had country lives when they live in cities.
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Old 08-13-2012, 05:54 AM
 
7,908 posts, read 19,872,490 times
Reputation: 7322
Quote:
Originally Posted by Happy in Wyoming View Post
World War I signalled the death of small towns everywhere. It wasn't the war; it was the coming of the automobile. Local merchants no longer had captive buyers; people could get to larger towns and cities. Some years ago I was traveling west to Denver on I-70. I saw a very old sign advertising US 40 as the shortcut to Denver. Just for fun I decided to take it. I drove through several towns that were either partly or completely abandoned and once past Sharon Springs, Kansas, site of one of the absolute worst meals I ever ate, saw virtually no other cars. That's rural.
That actually worked both ways ...

some small towns, typified by the agrarian and ranching communities, lost their local economics due to the ready access to travel with the improved road system and higher speeds.

some small towns, which were previously not readily accessible for tourism and recreation, got an infusion of capital and economic activity due to the influx of the more affluent with newfound leisure time.

Electrification of rural areas made many farm/ranch chores far easier than ever, yielding leisure and discretionary time to do other things ... like travel on the newly improved road system with cars of much more reliability and higher speeds. In our region, rural electrification wasn't even started until post WW2. The old timers around here tell me that happened in the early 1950's; my ranch wasn't electrified until 1955.

While the rural development may have had it's beginnings post WW1, the true economics didn't develop until post WW2. Roads, private vehicles, electrification ... accompanied by another major development, the transistion of the railroads from coal to diesel power. Coal required a lot of fueling and water stations with a lot of maintenance downtime, while diesel slashed the crew requirements, eliminated coal and water stops, and minimized downtime/maintenance requirements. Regional facilities like the big maintenance roundhouse in Cheyenne were able to slash their crews to just a few people compared to hundreds to move more tonnage than ever. All the little rural railroad towns were devastated by the loss of the jobs.

As I travel many highways around the region such as US 30, I'm thankful that I use my RV conversion van for transportation, lodging and my own little galley. It's not just the ancient decrepit lodging that is to be found in the old motor courts that is so appalling, but the consistently bad restaurants along these routes. Most are gold medal finalists in the contest for "worst meal" of a lifetime. I never knew how badly a place could screw up domestic staples until I tried relying upon these places for my first trips in the area, and a client in Wallace NE got to show off another one a few weeks ago. It almost takes a special talent to create such garbage for the plate and an assault upon the gastro-intestinal tract, and a genuine indifference to a customer to charge so much for it ... all delivered with a genuine down-home friendly smile and banter.
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Old 08-13-2012, 09:58 AM
 
Location: Auburn
1,942 posts, read 1,894,298 times
Reputation: 775
My point was Logan Ut , itis an agraian area with more ranches to the north as you get inmto idaho and also alonmg the west side of the valley , Pocatello area also a city with ranches and they seem more ag freindly then parts of Wyoming with all the summer homes.
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Old 08-13-2012, 07:46 PM
 
Location: Fort Collins, Colorado
295 posts, read 436,249 times
Reputation: 95
Quote:
Originally Posted by Happy in Wyoming View Post
You want something that doesn't exist. The West has always been a dynamic place since the first settlers arrived. The ranches are still there but they're very different from what they were in the past. The biggest difference for you is that a ranch of any given size gets by with far fewer employees than it did a century ago.

You can find some very small places but there will be little or no shopping and certainly no medical facilities.



This is today's Wyoming. People play golf and wear different clothes. But so what? Their values are the same as they ever were. We've always pushed for progress and our state is rated the most business-friendly in the country. Cowboy clothes have never been more than image. But speaking of values, you're making a lot of demands. How much money are you bringing?

You're far more likely to find the place that time passed by in eastern Colorado, western Kansas, or the Oklahoma Panhandle. But you'll give up the mall and the medical services. You'll give up the mall in Wyoming as well but I fear that we're not "country" enough for you.

How many times have you been in the mall in the last year? Would you really like it to drop to zero per year?

The people who move here and and stay like what they see and accept it.
I don't frequent malls! Are you kidding me?! The places I am looking at in Wyoming don't even have malls as far as I know and I never said a thing about wanting a mall. I don't have ANY need for a mall whatsoever. That is COUNTER OPERATIVE of the whole purpose of living in Wyoming for us!

Surely like any other state, there are differing cultures, economies, socieities, philosophies and social practices that breeds advantages and disadvantages based on ones perception. There is no reason why one can't have realistic concerns about one city or area for certain reasons then at the same time, another area is a whole other case.

It is valid to have concerns about a place you visit in consideration of moving there. I would consider it sloppy to not. Thats why I ask questions of locals to confirm or disspel my concerns and/or observations. Thats seen everyday on this website. I feel your post contains presupposition and sardonicism which I feel is unwarranted. I meekly and respectfully came on here to get help with these issues so I am fully informed in my desicion-making process and not under any false notions or misunderstandings. So as to find the right place with a proper balance. There is no place that is perfect, and that is understood. However, you have to like where you live and have it satisfy your basic, or most important needs and accept the negatives with the positives in a healthy collaboration. That is the nucleus of the process.

You may be misunderstanding what we are looking for perhaps. I will be happy to elaborate further on our desires. When I stated to live in a city/town or near one, that is based on flexibility and the predetirmined knowledge that we are talking of towns from 1,000 pop to 20,000 pop. I was never speaking of Cheyenne or Casper for living in. I don't see how there is not agriculture surrounding townships of said population. The biggest city in the state has ag all around it. I don't want a cosmopolitan lifestyle at all, nor a country-politan, like the Front Range, nor do I want to live in a city of Cheyenne's size. That would defeat our purposes. We are simply looking for a town/city between the population of 1,000 and 20,000, give or take, with an agrarian based culture surrounding that has BASIC medical facilities within or near. Based on my research, there are lots of places like that in Wyoming. I never said we needed a community that "time has passed by", nor state-of-the-art medical practices, or shopping malls etc., that is going from one extreme to the other. I specified that we don't need to live in a town that has medical resources, but to be more specific: 25 to 75 miles away is fine with us.

Clearly, we don't want an area similar to the Front Range or Rocky Mountian Tourist-Traps. I explained this in my post thoroughly. Meaning, overly popular, touristy, trendy, upwardly mobile, liberal/pseudo-liberal, party lifestyle, overly commercial among others. I know Wyoming is quite different than Colorado. That is exactly my point. I am very interested in Wyoming. I sensed, and so did my family, an environment in Sheridan that beared resemblences of the aforementioned cocerns. I have read that others have relating concerns about Sheridan as well. There's nothing wrong with that. Others on here have validated my concerns. I am not putting down Sheridan at all. I simply am concerned that it might have a culture or is building a culture that is steaming in the direction of said concerns. That is fine for those who appreciate that life. We want a more SLOW-PACED, COUNTRY, MODEST, SIMPLE, OLD-FASHIONED, TRADITIONAL town or area that is within a hundred miles of medical facilities and has some local shopping for basic daily needs.

I know that these types of places are in Wyoming as well as many other states and don't tell me they're not. I have thoroughly travelled around the West and Midwest for the last number of years and I can think of suitable places in almost every state. However, my desire is to move to Wyoming for a lifestyle that other states may can't fit. I came on this forum looking for answers like most others do. I am under the impression that this is the basis of these forums. Thanks for your time and for replying to my thread and I feel that I have my answers about Sheridan, thats why I was looking for recommendations on other areas.
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Old 08-13-2012, 08:30 PM
 
Location: Wyoming
6,513 posts, read 8,095,993 times
Reputation: 8350
Consider Sundance. I'd guess it's much what you're wanting -- ag based, city 75 miles away for most medical and shopping needs (Rapid City, SD).

Sheridan is a nice town, and while I understand your concern, I doubt that there's much basis for it. Sheridan has not grown much at all in the 40 years that I've lived down the road from it, but its size alone, in an area of large ranches, means it's not entirely an ag-based community by a long shot. There's a lot of old money in that town -- old, BIG money.
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Old 08-14-2012, 07:46 AM
 
Location: We_tside PNW / CO / SA TX / Thailand
10,483 posts, read 16,615,025 times
Reputation: 7364
I'd stick with Sherdian. 40 yrs has brought some changes, but not counter to what you desire. You have several other choices too. I would give Powell a good look, and Sundance, Newcastle, and even Torrington.

No CO is hosed *I left in 1980 due to overcrowding / taxed off my land. Heck, I even ran onto AZ folks talking about the craze to move to Nunn "Watch Nunn Grow" Tho there are still plenty of places in CO acceptable to your desires, you can bet the Dems have targeted it for political transformation, and it is probable. The Left Coast states have a voting populous that allows a couple left counties to control the vote of the entire state (including initiatives) Ranchers, farmers and businesses flee to ID at over 100/month.

While I could recommend AK, you need to be REALLY sensitive to the independence as you depart the mtn states. There are lots of survivalist / counter-culture / reclusive folks as you go west (in my observation). Also <5% 'churched' has some implications to community / school support. I have neighbors in the PNW I will never be able to meet, as they guard their independence. (to a fault)

WY / SD / ID / No UT are probably good spots for you.
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Old 08-14-2012, 10:17 AM
 
Location: Wyo
220 posts, read 191,299 times
Reputation: 182
Winslow, AZ. or Taos NM.

Go look at it, I think you'll find what you're looking for there.
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Old 08-14-2012, 04:14 PM
 
Location: Wyomin'
97 posts, read 80,605 times
Reputation: 44
I would put every single dime I am ever going to make on a bet that says Sheridan will never be anything like Fort Collins.

There are about 10 million reasons I can think of off the top of my head why. But who cares why? .
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