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It is impossible to claim that Imazighen are NOT a mixture of people. If you look at Ydna, which is passed down from father to son ad infinitum Imazighen are a mixture of YDNA which shows they do not all share the same origin. Some are J1, some are e1b, some are R1b, some are even A. J1 and r1b are supposedly not African in origin. Specifically J1 is from the Middle East and there are conflicting theories on R1b but all those theories for the most part say it came from outside of Africa. So it definitely isn’t “incredibly stupid” to say Imazighen are a mixture of people. Genetically this is a fact. We know Romans, Phoenicians, Greeks, Arabs, Turks, and European slaves all found their way into North Africa at one point or another in human history. It isn’t far fetched to think some of these groups settled down and mixed in to the local populations. Also, all one has to do is go on YouTube and look at all the DNA reveal videos submitted by people who identify as Amazigh. North Africa, Arab, African (so called sub-Saharan) and European generally all show up in the DNA results.
As to Imazighen skin color it varies. Some are really white looking like you find in the high atlas among some Rifi people or like the Kabyle in Algeria. Some are dark with so called “black” features like in Libya, Algeria, Morocco, Tunisia, Mali and Niger. to many Imazighen tribes that have “black features” and “black” skin to name. Like how we see among some Kel Tamashiq and other Imazighen tribes.
I have gotten into studying DNA on an amateur level. I no longer believe in “ethnic” groups per say as some genetically homogenous group of people all coming from the same area and sharing a common origin. People move around, settle down, admix and form new groups or meld into existing groups all the time. Even Arabs For example aren’t all one people either. This is a modern fallacy
Berbers should stop speaking arabic and start speaking and writing berber and english.
Have some berber pride
berber language matters
Are you Imazighen in origin and/or upbringing? If not then who are you to tell us of Imazighen origin what they should or shouldn't be doing. We can do both ie speak Arabic and imazighen (as has been the case since the 7th century). If anything English, French and any other European langauges should be avoided as those are languages of colonizers. I know a lot of silly Imazighen on the internet like to rail on about Arab colonization, but this is non sense. they don't know our history. Both Imazighen and Arab coexisted, Imazighen had self role and both groups (Imazighen and Arab) conquered Southern Europe TOGETHER! These young, know nothing Imazighen (usually the ones in Europe and America) do not know our history. Hence the misplaced anger and ahistorical opinions. I am of the opinion that a lot of the current issues you see ie the racism among Imazighen between each other (black and white) and between Imazighen and Arab is due to colonization and colonized minds. The French and Spanish were very cunning.
NO, they were not black. That’s fiction. The earliest signs indicate that they lived in the area since 8,000-10,000 before Christ. & Your statement about their skin color makes absolutely no sense. They were whitened by people that were browner than them (Asians)? They’re Asians in origin (Middle East) but are now white due to their close relationship with many european empires as well as a fresher mediteranean climate.
Berbers are NOT arabs, Berbers are NOT semetic, Berbers are NOT black.
I should also mention you should read the UNESCO book on the origin of Imazighen link. It clearly says there were TWO groups of Temehu (what the people of Kush and Egyptians called Imazighen). There was a group that appeared in Upper Egypt, who were black. They fought with the people of Kush and Egyptians in that area. Then some time later a group of white Imazighen appear in Lower Egypt and it is these people who were also referred to as the "sea people" ie they were a conglomerate of Mediterranean and Levantine people who banded together and attacked Egypt from the North. They seem to have melded in with the black Temehu, as they seem to have spoken the same language and had similar customs to the black temehu that were encountered in Upper Egypt some time earlier than the arrival of the Sea People. This ancient account also seems to coincide with what Ibn Hawqal said in the 10th century when he described two groups of Imazighen, one black and one white. He said Imazighen can be dived into two groups "Pure Sanhaja and the Banu Tanamak, the difference being that the latter were originally black whose skin and complexion became white because they live close to the North". He goes on to list 19 tribes that fall under the pure Sanhaja and 21 that fall under the Banu Tanamak. it was believed in his time that the Black group was the original group and that the White group became white because of their location further along the coast of North Africa (Which via DNA we can attribute to admixture from outside gene flow). The name of Ibn Hawqal's book is called Sura al Ardh. Also another good source to read about Imazighen is Herodotus' bok "the histories". He mentions in 500BCE that there were black and white Imazighen during his time (he refers to them by a number of names) but he clearly says some are "ethiop" black and some he refers to a "white" ethiops (white-black men). Not sure what he meant by that designation. Maybe that they looked more mixed in his time?
Are you Imazighen in origin and/or upbringing? If not then who are you to tell us of Imazighen origin what they should or shouldn't be doing. We can do both ie speak Arabic and imazighen (as has been the case since the 7th century). If anything English, French and any other European langauges should be avoided as those are languages of colonizers. I know a lot of silly Imazighen on the internet like to rail on about Arab colonization, but this is non sense. they don't know our history. Both Imazighen and Arab coexisted, Imazighen had self role and both groups (Imazighen and Arab) conquered Southern Europe TOGETHER! These young, know nothing Imazighen (usually the ones in Europe and America) do not know our history. Hence the misplaced anger and ahistorical opinions. I am of the opinion that a lot of the current issues you see ie the racism among Imazighen between each other (black and white) and between Imazighen and Arab is due to colonization and colonized minds. The French and Spanish were very cunning.
I want mediterranean reromanized. Arab rule set the berbers back
Berbers, like Kazakh, Sami, Khmer, or Aleuts, show that races are not absolute categories but gradients..
I agree, there are black Americans who could pass for white people and there are Indians or Pacific Islanders darker than black Americans. There’s also plenty of people from Africa who are 100% white.
We use social constructs like race or ethnicity to define and categorize people but the human race is far too diverse to abide by those definitions. Melanesians are pretty much black people with blonde hair.
Someone correctly pointed out that the term “African American” is hardly true, because we know nothing about Africa, it’s culture, countries, people, languages, or customs and many of us haven’t been there since our ancestors landed in America. It just made me realize how appearances and titles can be deceiving.
I once knew a Moroccan Berber when I was studying in London. I am of Afro Caribbean origin, and people thought that we were brothers. Within a continental African context I will suggest that we both approximate the Swahili peoples of Kenya and Tanzania in appearance.
I doubt that he had sub Saharan ancestry that was recent. This will suggest that among the various groups living around the Sahara were people who would be labeled "black" if they showed up in Europe. This Moroccan was labeled black and in fact was usually mistaken for being of Caribbean origin.
DNA is not necessarily accurate for the simple reason that ancient populations are swamped by the more recent who are in greater numbers. So the "mixed black" populations in North Africa will be almost absent as the southwest Asian DNA will dominate.
I agree, there are black Americans who could pass for white people and there are Indians or Pacific Islanders darker than black Americans. There’s also plenty of people from Africa who are 100% white.
We use social constructs like race or ethnicity to define and categorize people but the human race is far too diverse to abide by those definitions. Melanesians are pretty much black people with blonde hair.
Someone correctly pointed out that the term “African American” is hardly true, because we know nothing about Africa, it’s culture, countries, people, languages, or customs and many of us haven’t been there since our ancestors landed in America. It just made me realize how appearances and titles can be deceiving.
The Africans who are 100% white are descendants of relative recent European migrations to Africa. They aren't indigenous to the continent in the way that Berbers clearly are.
"African American" simply refers to Americans with predominant African descent, and this is clearly true. What is not true is attempting to link these populations to specific groups in Africa. Most AAs have dominant sub Saharan ancestry of a 75-85% range. The term was developed because clearly people with this ancestry have had a unique heritage in this nation. In 2020 we are still talking about whites harassing black for simply being in a place where a white person doesnt think that they should be. An Irish immigrant doesnt face this problem. The reality is that race is a dominant social construct in the USA and even a wealthy woman like Oprah can speak to this.
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