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Wrong. Race is a genetic construct, not a social construct. Africans did "sell their own" .
Race is NOT a genetic construct. Line up people in the USA and in Brazil and you will see how much of a social construct being "black" is.
When Hitler was responsible for the deaths or other forms of abuse against millions of Europeans he did that to "his own"?
Please do not scream that Africans are one black monolith and then get into nuances that Hitler killed people (Russians, Jews, Slavs and others) who he didnt consider his own.
African Americans are an ethnic group with commonalities of culture and heritage, so I do not see why you cite this as an example when clearly the Asante and Fante in the Gold Coast saw each other as enemies much as the British and the Germans did in WW I and II.
As to African involvement. Yes they were involved and many have apologized for the role that they played in developing the TransAtlantic Slave trade. Only the naive and dishonest claim that this was only perpetuated by whites.
What Africans were NOT responsible for was the racialization and slavery and the construction of social systems of oppression which existed everywhere in the Americas from Canada down to Argentina. The debasement and humiliation of peoples of African descent which created challenges which they had to, and in large measure have, overcome over the past centuries. It wasnt the African who constructed systems where some began to believe that some textures of hair was bad because it coincided with those who were enslaved and the held to the bottom of society.
The TransAtlantic slave trade wasnt about trading in peoples and only that. It was about a dehumanization of peoples who were reduced to being farm animals represented on plantation financial statements as an asset. Do you know that plantation owners used their slaves as property to be mortgaged just as they did their farm animals, equipment and other property? You CANNOT blame Africans for that !
"The African role in the Slave Trade"...does not negate, minimize, or absolve the EUROPEAN role in the Slave Trade.
The end.
Let us see what evolved out of slavery. Jim Crow in the USA, de facto in the North, and de jure in the South. Outside of the USA skin color hierarchies where skin color, facial features and hair texture determined the opportunity that one had as much as education or skills did.
Were Africans responsible for that? Given that we saw in Tulsa and other parts of the USA. both the building of thriving communities of former slaves and their subsequent destruction, now imagine if slave ended and full equality was the result.
Blacks in the USA would be much further ahead than they are. It is a mistake to focus only on slavery when Jim Crow, Redlining, real estate covenants, racial segregation, etc., froze in place social structures which arose out of US style slavery.
Look at Brazil. Most blacks in that nation were actually NOT slaves when slavery ended. Many actually having levels of economic success. Then Brazil began its Branqueamento which encouraged massive immigration of Europeans who then displaced peoples of African descent. Now imagine where blacks in Brazol would have been without this.
In both Brazil and the USA had systems not been put in place to undercut the socioeconomic progress AFTER slavery ended in both societies blacks would have been better off. So here we see that it wasnt just slavery itself which was to blame. It was the systems of social and economic oppression which emerged out of systems which began with the implementation of the TransAtlantic slave trade.
YES IT DOES, i dont need to hear how European treated Africans when Africans threated them worse and sold them as just a merchandise.
Did Africans implement Jim Crow? No they did NOT. Within Africa the mere fact that one was a slave didnt condemn subsequent generations to inferior social status by mere virtue of their race.
1865 and 1886 did NOT result in full equality for blacks in the USA and Brazil and for that Africans were NOT to blame.
So sorry whites are to be implicated, even those who didnt own slaves, because they certainly benefitted from patterns of racism which were implemented against those of African descent.
Status:
"It Can't Rain All The Time"
(set 25 days ago)
Location: North Pacific
15,754 posts, read 7,588,006 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by caribny
Race is NOT a genetic construct. Line up people in the USA and in Brazil and you will see how much of a social construct being "black" is.
When Hitler was responsible for the deaths or other forms of abuse against millions of Europeans he did that to "his own"?
Please do not scream that Africans are one black monolith and then get into nuances that Hitler killed people (Russians, Jews, Slavs and others) who he didnt consider his own.
African Americans are an ethnic group with commonalities of culture and heritage, so I do not see why you cite this as an example when clearly the Asante and Fante in the Gold Coast saw each other as enemies much as the British and the Germans did in WW I and II.
As to African involvement. Yes they were involved and many have apologized for the role that they played in developing the TransAtlantic Slave trade. Only the naive and dishonest claim that this was only perpetuated by whites.
What Africans were NOT responsible for was the racialization and slavery and the construction of social systems of oppression which existed everywhere in the Americas from Canada down to Argentina. The debasement and humiliation of peoples of African descent which created challenges which they had to, and in large measure have, overcome over the past centuries. It wasnt the African who constructed systems where some began to believe that some textures of hair was bad because it coincided with those who were enslaved and the held to the bottom of society.
The TransAtlantic slave trade wasnt about trading in peoples and only that. It was about a dehumanization of peoples who were reduced to being farm animals represented on plantation financial statements as an asset. Do you know that plantation owners used their slaves as property to be mortgaged just as they did their farm animals, equipment and other property? You CANNOT blame Africans for that !
"How people have been accepted and treated within the context of a given society or culture has a direct impact on how they perform in that society. The "racial" worldview was invented to assign some groups to perpetual low status, while others were permitted access to privilege, power, and wealth. The tragedy in the United States has been that the policies and practices stemming from this worldview succeeded all too well in constructing unequal populations among Europeans, Native Americans, and peoples of African descent."
A person's status in society is a social construct. Thus the reason a person's wealth is not depicted by their skin color. The white man in the 1700s wasn't the only plantation owner in the new world and wasn't the only one to raise up their status in society to be that of a slave owner, either.
btw: the practice of slave trading continues in Africa, as well, as every other country around the world. A person's race has nothing to do with that either. Only that they are poor and vulnerable to capture.
Did Africans implement Jim Crow? No they did NOT. Within Africa the mere fact that one was a slave didnt condemn subsequent generations to inferior social status by mere virtue of their race.
1865 and 1886 did NOT result in full equality for blacks in the USA and Brazil and for that Africans were NOT to blame.
So sorry whites are to be implicated, even those who didnt own slaves, because they certainly benefitted from patterns of racism which were implemented against those of African descent.
jim crow. african selling africans as slave something lower then other africans is JIM CROW
But white people didn't just serve as a market for the Africans to sell their slaves to, but they were also a source to be enslaved. As long as pirates and militias are allowed to roam the lands of the world all over, from the deep ocean to coastal waters --- no one is safe from the slave trade, not then, not now, not ever. And if people don't know this about their history, then they never learned how it became known that the u.s. is not a Christian nation. Slavery has nothing to do with skin color and everything to do with the vulnerable population of people that have existed in all societies from ancient to modern times. When I was 18, it almost became, my story, as well.
Would you care to share your story, Ellis, if it's not too painful or personal? If not, I completely understand.
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"It Can't Rain All The Time"
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ellis Bell
But white people didn't just serve as a market for the Africans to sell their slaves to, but they were also a source to be enslaved. As long as pirates and militias are allowed to roam the lands of the world all over, from the deep ocean to coastal waters --- no one is safe from the slave trade, not then, not now, not ever. And if people don't know this about their history, then they never learned how it became known that the u.s. is not a Christian nation. Slavery has nothing to do with skin color and everything to do with the vulnerable population of people that have existed in all societies from ancient to modern times. When I was 18, it almost became, my story, as well.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bentonite
Would you care to share your story, Ellis, if it's not too painful or personal? If not, I completely understand.
I don't mind, but I do want to preface it by saying, God takes care of me, by giving to me the opportunities for information that I may one day need.
In my pre teen years I'd go with my mom to the beauty shop and while waiting on her to get her hair done, I'd read the magazines. The one's most interesting was the True Crime mags ... it's because of those stories, I grew up very much aware of modern days slavery and pretty much how people fall victim to it. But I always thought they were young people being transported from other countries to here, by rich folks promise of grandeur when they got here. I found out first hand, not so.
When I turned 18 I left home. I couched surfed. I did work, but I didn't hold a steady job. And I loved hanging out in the bars with most every night being a party. There was one bar in particular, it was a biker's bar. The people in there were always looking out of me ... it was just a crazy time. At no time was I truly homeless. I did have a home to go to, I just didn't want to.
One evening a couple showed up. I'd never seen them before. The girl, young woman she approached me and while I don't remember all of what we talked about, my situation led her to believe, I needed help of some kind. They offered to take me to Houston and I could live with them, they'd send me to college, buy me clothes and I'd have a nice roof over my head and a future ... If I had truly been a desperate individual I would have bought what they were selling. Even though I wasn't desperate I almost went with them. I don't remember too much of what happened after that, but I do recall seeing them one more time at the bar, lurking in the back ground. After that they disappeared, but the experienced remembered.
Wolves in sheep clothing ... frequent places where is seems people are down on their luck. Whether that place be here and a local establishment or in Zimbabwe, it's all the same. What kills me is people in that it happens right up under their very noses and their oblivious to it ---
I don't mind, but I do want to preface it by saying, God takes care of me, by giving to me the opportunities for information that I may one day need.
In my pre teen years I'd go with my mom to the beauty shop and while waiting on her to get her hair done, I'd read the magazines. The one's most interesting was the True Crime mags ... it's because of those stories, I grew up very much aware of modern days slavery and pretty much how people fall victim to it. But I always thought they were young people being transported from other countries to here, by rich folks promise of grandeur when they got here. I found out first hand, not so.
When I turned 18 I left home. I couched surfed. I did work, but I didn't hold a steady job. And I loved hanging out in the bars with most every night being a party. There was one bar in particular, it was a biker's bar. The people in there were always looking out of me ... it was just a crazy time. At no time was I truly homeless. I did have a home to go to, I just didn't want to.
One evening a couple showed up. I'd never seen them before. The girl, young woman she approached me and while I don't remember all of what we talked about, my situation led her to believe, I needed help of some kind. They offered to take me to Houston and I could live with them, they'd send me to college, buy me clothes and I'd have a nice roof over my head and a future ... If I had truly been a desperate individual I would have bought what they were selling. Even though I wasn't desperate I almost went with them. I don't remember too much of what happened after that, but I do recall seeing them one more time at the bar, lurking in the back ground. After that they disappeared, but the experienced remembered.
Wolves in sheep clothing ... frequent places where is seems people are down on their luck. Whether that place be here and a local establishment or in Zimbabwe, it's all the same. What kills me is people in that it happens right up under their very noses and their oblivious to it ---
I believe your instincts were correct about this couple, Ellis. It's one thing to say "Hey, if you're ever in Houston, look us up" or "You can stay with us for a couple days when you're in town." But to offer college, clothing, full time accommodation, and "a future" ... well, that's unusual. WAY too unusual. The girl was obviously a lure/bait. This couple wanted to use you for something not good. Thank goodness you didn't take them up on their offer. I hope no one else did, either.
Thank you for sharing your story. I hope anyone reading it will take note and be aware of such pitfalls.
Line up African Americans, Brazilians, Dominicans, etc. and see which one is which. Line up Koreans, Chinese, Japanese, and see which one is which. Line up whites throughout America and Europe and try to tell the difference
You can call yourself a blue alien centipede if you want, you're still either black, white, or Asian. And Africans absolutely sold their own, from the arbitrary borders set by Europeans and arbitrary tribes set by themselves.
Quote:
Originally Posted by caribny
When Hitler was responsible for the deaths or other forms of abuse against millions of Europeans he did that to "his own"?
Yes he did. You really think Jews and Slavics aren't white?
Even the Europeans who immigrated to America were discriminated against, only to be quickly accepted as "white." Arbitrary titles change, major genetics don't.
Quote:
Originally Posted by caribny
African Americans are an ethnic group with commonalities of culture and heritage,
African Americans are apart of the African diaspora, to include Brazilians and Haitians.
Quote:
The African diaspora is the worldwide collection of communities descended from native Africans or people from Africa, predominantly in the Americas. The term most commonly refers to the descendants of the West and Central Africans who were enslaved and shipped to the Americas via the Atlantic slave trade between the 16th and 19th centuries, with their largest populations in the United States , Brazil and Haiti
You don't get to claim "African American slaves weren't considered African by the African chiefs who sold them into slavery."
Africans sold their own into slavery, period. Ask any historian if Americans gave one damn about what "tribe" a slave was from. All they cared about is if they were a black African, that's all the justification they needed to put you in chains.
Last edited by Rocko20; 01-28-2022 at 12:55 AM..
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