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Location: Formerly NYC by week; ATL by weekend...now Rio bi annually and ATL bi annually
1,522 posts, read 2,243,218 times
Reputation: 1041
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ellis Bell
The only thing making slavery illegal changed was that governments can no longer tax people as property. People can still be the property of someone else, as well as, their status handed down for generations.
"Descent-based slavery describes a situation where people are born into slavery because their ancestors were captured into slavery and their families have ‘belonged’ to the slave-owning families ever since. Slave status is passed down the maternal line.
This form of slavery can still be found across the Sahel belt of Africa, including Mauritania, Niger, Mali, Chad and Sudan. Many other African societies also have a traditional hierarchy where people are known to be the descendants of slaves or slave-owners."
The people who were kidnapped were the victims of a rival tribe's slave raid, many were killed during the raids. I doubt seriously they were too concerned with those that made it to the European ships, to care what happened to them after that. In later years as late as the 80s in Africa, Necklace (maybe even as late as in 2011) was still being practiced on those who were deemed an enemy. Africa is a violent continent with many spiritual and religious customs, that are still practiced present day.
And as many were of European culture, their wives were chattel to the husbands. It was the culture of the era. The men (some of the men, I don't guess all were brutes) beat their wives, their children and probably kicked the dog too, for good measure. (many still practice the same today and it can be found all around the world)
The only difference between today and yesterday is --- we have better toys to play with, that's all. If you have a clearer narrative than that, do share ...
Do expound on the institution of CHATTEL slavery and its derivative social construct of RACE and cultural policies and practices put in place by the perpetrators of the institution to PERPETUALLY marginalize a particular group of people. Throughout the entirety of the Diaspora, because from Aparthied to Jim Crow and everything in between the policies were the same. Then detail where these social practices are in place on the continent of Africa since one would have you believe that the institution of CHATTEL slavery as the white europeans perpetuated it is still in play. And that theres no nuance to the issue.
So besides more toys to play with lets play with truth and context........
Do expound on the institution of CHATTEL slavery and its derivative social construct of RACE and cultural policies and practices put in place by the perpetrators of the institution to PERPETUALLY marginalize a particular group of people. Throughout the entirety of the Diaspora, because from Aparthied to Jim Crow and everything in between the policies were the same. Then detail where these social practices are in place on the continent of Africa since one would have you believe that the institution of CHATTEL slavery as the white europeans perpetuated it is still in play. And that theres no nuance to the issue.
So besides more toys to play with lets play with truth and context........
Location: Formerly NYC by week; ATL by weekend...now Rio bi annually and ATL bi annually
1,522 posts, read 2,243,218 times
Reputation: 1041
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bentonite
What's your point?
Its absolutely obvious what my point is. I believe the conversation is a good one when ALL the context and nuance has been given. Which based on the lack of response to my latter commentary would prove to be true, thus proving my point. Ive said this before; and many other posters within the thread have eloquently articulated the context of the slavery issue. Its a fact that on the continent of africa warring tribes did not perpetuate chattel slavery. It was not a heritable curse as the europeans made it. They didnt create social racial constructs to support and legitamize it. They didnt put in place systems to generationally marginalize a particular people on every land mass that people inhabited. Thats my point.
We all can discuss the modern day realization that SOME Africans contributed to the transatlantic slave trade, but thats completely seperate from the institution of chattel slavery and the socially systemic racims that derived from it. Intellectual honesty is key; (in my opinion).
Its absolutely obvious what my point is. I believe the conversation is a good one when ALL the context and nuance has been given. Which based on the lack of response to my latter commentary would prove to be true, thus proving my point. Ive said this before; and many other posters within the thread have eloquently articulated the context of the slavery issue. Its a fact that on the continent of africa warring tribes did not perpetuate chattel slavery. It was not a heritable curse as the europeans made it. They didnt create social racial constructs to support and legitamize it. They didnt put in place systems to generationally marginalize a particular people on every land mass that people inhabited. Thats my point.
We all can discuss the modern day realization that SOME Africans contributed to the transatlantic slave trade, but thats completely seperate from the institution of chattel slavery and the socially systemic racims that derived from it. Intellectual honesty is key; (in my opinion).
Thank you for your explanation. I understand better what you're saying, even if I disagree with some of it.
What makes you think African warring tribes didn't perpetuate chattel slavery until Europeans "established" (for lack of a better word) it? And, if Europeans, Asians, or anyone else did establish it, aren't modern day Africans mentally and emotionally capable of breaking it? Certainly their women have more rights and freedoms now than they're probably ever had. So why not break free of chattel slavery?
These are real questions; I'm not trying to bait you.
I don't think most posters are going to give you the amount and quality of response you seek. Their context, nuance, and honesty may not be enough or the right kind for you, or yours for them. But I agree, let's keep the conversation going.
Location: Formerly NYC by week; ATL by weekend...now Rio bi annually and ATL bi annually
1,522 posts, read 2,243,218 times
Reputation: 1041
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bentonite
Thank you for your explanation. I understand better what you're saying, even if I disagree with some of it.
What makes you think African warring tribes didn't perpetuate chattel slavery until Europeans "established" (for lack of a better word) it?
Ive stated it above at least 2 times. The capturing of a tribe by another and "slavery" of some of the captives whom were not assimilated, was not heritable. Their future generations were not subgigated to that slavery or captiveness. Chattel slavery was based mostly on the creation of a racial social structure and subgigation of those particular people to that institution. Theres a reason why Europeans didnt perpetuate it amongst each other in a chattel fashion. Wwhat makes you think they did create chattel slavery and its socially oppresive derivatives is the question. The aformentioned cannot be disputed.
And, if Europeans, Asians, or anyone else did establish it, aren't modern day Africans mentally and emotionally capable of breaking it? Certainly their women have more rights and freedoms now than they're probably ever had. So why not break free of chattel slavery?
Do not confuse whats happening today with chattel slavery. Thats the issue with some of yalls arguments. And lets not be so naive as to leave out nuances and context. Why didnt white women exercise their free will prior to having to have their full inalieable rights included in civil rights? Think about that....
These are real questions; I'm not trying to bait you.
I don't think most posters are going to give you the amount and quality of response you seek. Their context, nuance, and honesty may not be enough or the right kind for you, or yours for them. But I agree, let's keep the conversation going.
I think thats why certain posters on here like me, AB, NigerianNitemare, CaribNY, yourself, etc are key here. Just posting brain farts as fact and not solely opinion influences others who willfully are ignorant and believe anything that supports their narratives, biases and prejudices. I agree, the conversation should be discussed and in full context.
Status:
"It Can't Rain All The Time"
(set 26 days ago)
Location: North Pacific
15,754 posts, read 7,590,375 times
Reputation: 2576
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ellis Bell
The only thing making slavery illegal changed was that governments can no longer tax people as property. People can still be the property of someone else, as well as, their status handed down for generations.
"Descent-based slavery describes a situation where people are born into slavery because their ancestors were captured into slavery and their families have ‘belonged’ to the slave-owning families ever since. Slave status is passed down the maternal line.
This form of slavery can still be found across the Sahel belt of Africa, including Mauritania, Niger, Mali, Chad and Sudan. Many other African societies also have a traditional hierarchy where people are known to be the descendants of slaves or slave-owners."
The people who were kidnapped were the victims of a rival tribe's slave raid, many were killed during the raids. I doubt seriously they were too concerned with those that made it to the European ships, to care what happened to them after that. In later years as late as the 80s in Africa, Necklace (maybe even as late as in 2011) was still being practiced on those who were deemed an enemy. Africa is a violent continent with many spiritual and religious customs, that are still practiced present day.
And as many were of European culture, their wives were chattel to the husbands. It was the culture of the era. The men (some of the men, I don't guess all were brutes) beat their wives, their children and probably kicked the dog too, for good measure. (many still practice the same today and it can be found all around the world)
The only difference between today and yesterday is --- we have better toys to play with, that's all. If you have a clearer narrative than that, do share ...
Quote:
Originally Posted by SLIMMACKEY
Do expound on the institution of CHATTEL slavery and its derivative social construct of RACE and cultural policies and practices put in place by the perpetrators of the institution to PERPETUALLY marginalize a particular group of people. Throughout the entirety of the Diaspora, because from Aparthied to Jim Crow and everything in between the policies were the same. Then detail where these social practices are in place on the continent of Africa since one would have you believe that the institution of CHATTEL slavery as the white europeans perpetuated it is still in play. And that theres no nuance to the issue.
So besides more toys to play with lets play with truth and context........
I've brought you truth and facts in context; if I had posted anything but ---- you would have brought to me your research on the subject ...
On the subject of slavery in general, I noted a woeful headline today: "Criminal gangs are targeting Ukrainian women fleeing the war in bid to turn them into sex slaves."
Come on, mankind, you can do better than this ... will we never learn?
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