Uh oh (Anchorage, Metlakatla, Healy: live, dangerous, bus)

[Cloudy Dayz]

Originally Posted by RayinAK

What? How can you compare a traffic accident rescue to the ones of people who are stranded somewhere? In a traffic accident not all involved are responsible for causing the accident, and all rescue operations are paid for by local and federal governments, regardless of the location (wilderness, home, road, etc. If it is decided that a certain person caused and accident, then the person has to answer in court. The courts would have a very difficult time to charge a person of being negligent for being stranded in the wilderness and then rescued.

The money for rescue operations comes from all tax payers. But the cost of hospital and other care, lawsuits, and so on, are the responsibility of the people involved.

Got it. You think that road users are entitled to emergency services, but backcountry users are not. Got it.

For your information most backcountry search and rescue is performed by volunteers who use their own equipment and get paid nothing.

Unlike road idiots who drive their car off the road while they are texting and driving. Then the highway patrol responds which is paid for with TAX money. Followed by fire department which even if they are volunteers still have their equipment paid for and are supported with TAX money. Followed by an ambulance which is probably paid for by local TAX district money or a Sheriff's department helicopter which is also paid for with TAX money. But you are okay with that.

Alaska Search and Rescue Association is a non-profit corporation registered in the State of Alaska.

Our mission is to support the volunteer organizations that perform search and rescue efforts across the state of Alaska.

In the United States most search and rescue operations are performed by volunteers. In Alaska, our missions range from the vast tundra to the tallest mountains in North America to valleys carved out by the glaciers that still grace us with their wonder.

Our volunteers dedicate their efforts to saving the lives of those in need, often a great expense and personal sacrifice, in some of the most difficult conditions on Earth. Like our brothers and sisters across the many varied disciplines in search and rescue, these things we do that others may live.

Alaska Search and Rescue Association

[RayinAK]

Originally Posted by Cloudy Dayz

Got it. You think that road users are entitled to emergency services, but backcountry users are not. Got it.

For your information most backcountry search and rescue is performed by volunteers who use their own equipment and get paid nothing.

Unlike road idiots who drive their car off the road while they are texting and driving. Then the highway patrol responds which is paid for with TAX money. Followed by fire department which even if they are volunteers still have their equipment paid for and are supported with TAX money. Followed by an ambulance which is probably paid for by local TAX district money or a Sheriff's department helicopter which is also paid for with TAX money. But you are okay with that.



Alaska Search and Rescue Association

a. Where did I say that? Did you read what I wrote saying that all rescue operations are paid for by local and Federal governments, and that the money comes from all tax payers? But there is no comparison between a road accident rescue, and another rescue of somebody who has a hiking or camping accident. Those are different issues, but both require rescue operations paid for by all tax payers in one fore or another.

b. How about a road idiot who rams his car on another vehicle and injures the occupants. Should only the injured inside the vehicle he rammed be rescued and he be left trapped in his vehicle? Yes, there are volunteer fire fighters and rescue crews of numerous kinds. But all services performed by volunteers in fire and other districts are sponsored by local and other governments. They cannot afford the buying rescue equipment, fire trucks, ambulances, food, lodging, and even the training and classes they must go through... out of their own pockets.

Most of the rescue operations in Alaska where helicopters are used are done by the AK National Guard. But the police (including troopers), fire departments, and so open have rescue crews. In addition to those, all departments have rescue "volunteers" of various kinds. Search for, "do volunteer fire and other rescue crews receive payments?"

Keep in mind that anybody who needs rescue deserves to be rescued. Even a person who intentionally goes out there to die and somehow manages to survive cannot to be denied a rescue operation. The same for a bad driver or anybody else. All rescue operations are paid for by local and federal governments, regardless if the crews are made of volunteers or not.

This is for you, from the link you posted above:
https://www.alaskasar.org/alaska-statutespsob-program

Sec. 18.60.130. Expenses of search and rescue parties.

The expense of the search and rescue party shall be paid out of the state treasury upon vouchers properly made out, signed, and sworn to by the person appointed to direct the search and rescue party. The oath to the voucher shall be taken and made before the commissioner of public safety or a designee and may be paid only after it has been approved by the commissioner of public safety or a designee. In approving the voucher, the commissioner of public safety or a designee shall consider the necessity of the search and rescue party, the reasonableness of the expenses, and the proper audit of the voucher. The commissioner of public safety or the commissioner’s designee may organize and conduct a search and rescue training exercise to prepare for a response to a search and rescue activity under AS 18.60.120. Only the commissioner or the commissioner’s designee may authorize a person to participate in a search and rescue training exercise under this section.

[Cloudy Dayz]

Originally Posted by RayinAK

a. Where did I say that? Did you read what I wrote saying that all rescue operations are paid for by local and Federal governments, and that the money comes from all tax payers? But there is no comparison between a road accident rescue, and another rescue of somebody who has a hiking or camping accident. Those are different issues, but both require rescue operations paid for by all tax payers in one fore or another.

b. How about a road idiot who rams his car on another vehicle and injures the occupants. Should only the injured inside the vehicle he rammed be rescued and he be left trapped in his vehicle? Yes, there are volunteer fire fighters and rescue crews of numerous kinds. But all services performed by volunteers in fire and other districts are sponsored by local and other governments. They cannot afford the buying rescue equipment, fire trucks, ambulances, food, lodging, and even the training and classes they must go through... out of their own pockets.

Most of the rescue operations in Alaska where helicopters are used are done by the AK National Guard. But the police (including troopers), fire departments, and so open have rescue crews. In addition to those, all departments have rescue "volunteers" of various kinds. Search for, "do volunteer fire and other rescue crews receive payments?"

Keep in mind that anybody who needs rescue deserves to be rescued. Even a person who intentionally goes out there to die and somehow manages to survive cannot to be denied a rescue operation. The same for a bad driver or anybody else. All rescue operations are paid for by local and federal governments, regardless if the crews are made of volunteers or not.

This is for you, from the link you posted above:
https://www.alaskasar.org/alaska-statutespsob-program

As I said I totally get where you are coming from. Road users are entitled to emergency services, backcountry users are not. I get it.

[RayinAK]

All people are entitled to emergency services, regardless of being on the road, in the air, on a tree, or water. By the way, there are lost of small villages in Alaska where there aren't road access, but people still get rescued. Even dogs and cats get rescued, and some people have been rescued when being stuck in their toilets unable to stand up.

[demtion35]

Interesting that the bus was so popular. More so after Chris, the book, and the movie. Hikers, hunters, and other folks often would write their names on the ceiling of the bus. There was a record then of so and so was here.

Here is a clip of folks being flown in by helicopter to camp there for several days. That bus must have been located right on a famous wagon trail.

That is how it must have gotten there to that spot.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BQWbZmF5TnA

[cjseliga]

Originally Posted by demtion35

That bus must have been located right on a famous wagon trail.

That is how it must have gotten there to that spot.

The Stampede Trail was originally a mining trail dating to 1903. In 1960, Yutan Construction won a contract from the new state of Alaska to upgrade the trail as part of Alaska's Pioneer Road Program, building a road for trucks to haul ore from the mine year-round for transshipment to the railroad at Lignite (near the present day town of Healy.)

Construction was discontinued in 1961 after only 47.5 miles of road were built. No bridges were constructed over the several rivers it crossed. In 1963 maintenance was halted and the route promptly became impassable for road vehicles by the soft permafrost and seasonal flooding.

Bus 142 was originally one of three buses used by the Yutan Construction Company to provide site accommodations for the construction crew from Fairbanks that worked on road upgrades in 1960–1961. It was towed on location by a Caterpillar D8 bulldozer, as the engine had been removed.

It contained a couple of beds and a wood-burning stove. When the Stampede Mine ceased operations in the 1970s, the buses were removed, but Bus 142 was left behind due to a broken rear axle, and subsequently served as a shelter for hunters, trappers, and other visitors.

[Cloudy Dayz]

Originally Posted by RayinAK

All people are entitled to emergency services, regardless of being on the road, in the air, on a tree, or water. By the way, there are lost of small villages in Alaska where there aren't road access, but people still get rescued. Even dogs and cats get rescued, and some people have been rescued when being stuck in their toilets unable to stand up.

That contradicts what you previously posted.

[Cloudy Dayz]

For the record after the Henry Ford Museum bought the Rosa Parks bus, they spent $300,000 to restore it. Which would be about $500,000 today. About the same price they are going to spend to restore Bus 142. So it looks like the price tag is right on target.

Restorers of Rosa Parks bus step back into civil rights era

When the museum bought No. 2857 in a national auction for $492,000 in October 2001, it was a rusted shell. It had been used for target practice and was gouged by bullets. It was swept out, roped off and exhibited temporarily - Parks came to a private party to view it.

After debating how to preserve it, curators agreed the bus would best survive fully restored. Federal and private grants picked up the $300,000 tag. In September, a team accustomed to building concept cars and automotive prototypes peered into the hollowed-out, stinking artifact in the back of the Auburn Hills shop.

Restorers of Rosa Parks bus step back into civil rights era – Baltimore Sun

[RayinAK]

Originally Posted by Cloudy Dayz

That contradicts what you previously posted.

I guess that your mind was cloudy when reading my responses to your posts? I even debunked your saying that volunteer crews in some places use their own equipment, and then posted a link of one of the Alaska's rescue organizations without reading section 18x first. I have never said that people in the bush shouldn't be rescued. It is you saying that I am saying that.

Even "snowmachiners" (called "snowmobilers" in the lower-48) get rescued from remote locations sometimes:
https://www.newsminer.com/news/alask...cc50740e1.html

[oregonwoodsmoke]

Originally Posted by Music_Man

So I guess we continue to pay to rescue the idiots that get in trouble trying to make it to the "site" and call for help. I'm tired of it!

What they do in Oregon for the endless rescues off of Mount Hood, is that there is no charge for the rescue if the lost hiker is wearing a personal locator beacon. If they go out unprepared without the beacon, Search and Rescue will go out and find them, but they get charged for the rescue, which is not cheap.


It doesn't actually stop people from being stupid, but it does help to defray some of the expense.


I'm not opposed to Search and Rescue, but it is irritating when idiots do stupid things and have to be found and saved, because when they do that they are putting the lives of the rescuers at risk.


I don't know how tough or dangerous the rescues are in the bus location, but at a minimum it takes the Search and Rescue personnel away from their jobs and families and there is expense for rescue vehicles and maybe a helicopter. If it is dangerous for a hiker to get stuck in a dangerous location, then it is dangerous for Search and Rescue to go in and fetch them out again.