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I understand completely but you said and I quote, "Caribbean south American coast is NOT Caribbean", something which is completely incorrect.
The notion that cities like Caracas, Maracay, Valencia and even Cumana & Guyana city receive influence from the nearby Llanos cultural region is true and even to a lesser extent from the "Neo-grenadine" Andean culture due to once being part of Colombia is also true. However, this doesn't take away from the fact that the main influence is that of the Caribbean and your notion of "Caribbean Light" is a perfect one to describe those cities in Venezuela not so far from the Caribbean coast.
Conversely, Colombia, even with geographical barriers such as the highest coastal mountains in the world, you still have towns like Aguachica (330km from the Caribbean coast and at the foothills of the Andes) that would be considered Caribbean in culture. Therefore your initial quote doesn't apply to Colombia and CaribNY's point of being more aware of their Caribbean identity than Venezuela, I also agree with.
What the hell is Caribbean culture? There's no such thing as Caribbean culture.
Aguachica is a cultural blend between Santander and Cesar sprung into one. They don't even use concrete for roads like the rest of Coastal Colombia.
What the hell is Caribbean culture? There's no such thing as Caribbean culture.
Caribbean culture is an umbrella term. Equally you can say something like Mediterranean culture or Nordic/Scandinavian culture. Regions with huge variety but with geographic, climatic, historic, ethnic and musical traits that share certain origins and customs.
I thought it would be obvious.
Listen to some Chouval B'wa and Biguine and it will become clearer. Obviously you're not from the Caribbean - you can tell from a mile away.
PS: "Concrete roads" - LMAO, what kind of argument is that.
That's not true, Coastal Colombia and Inland Colombia are pretty in sync since colonial times. Most expeditions led by the Spanish parted from the Northern Coast. Cities like Bogota were founded by Spaniards coming all the way from Santa Marta. The Magdalena River, the country's main river, flows north into the Atlantic Ocean after making its way across Colombia; there are towns located in 'Caribbean' departments like Cesar and Cordoba that would most resemble towns in Santander and Antioquia:
There are plenty of flights serving the two sides and airports in Colombian coastal cities are amongst the busiest airports in the country. There's also an everlasting need for road infrastructure taking shape as of late. Distance, in many cases, is less than 10 hours depending on the route, e.g. Monteria-Medellin; Valledupar-Bucaramanga; Santa Marta-Bucaramanga.
Coastal Colombia is nothing like Cuba, Puerto Rico, Dominican Republic or Panama. I can attest to that. It's more like, well, Colombia.
Bull!
Cultural boundaries are not black and white, they gradually transition and don't conform to political state (department) borders either, so your example of southern Cesar towns is not applicable. There are towns in Antioquia like Turbo that are more Caribbean, even Caucasia is highly influenced by the Caribbean region. Cauca has both an Andean culture and an Afro-Pacific culture and the story is repeated in different states across Colombia. A department may have a predominant culture but not necessarily an exclusive one.
Undoubtedly there is a connection between all Colombia's regions, however this doesn't stop them from showing cultural inclinations to an exterior influence according to their geography, cultural & historical links. Your example of flight routes and road network is stupid. There are tonnes of flights/road/train connections between Germany and Italy, less than 10 hours in distance - it doesn't mean a thing.
You only need to look at Cartagena, Barranquilla & Santa Marta to see that they're more similar to Panama city, Maracaibo and Havana than Bogotá.
Jesus! I don't know why is that so hard to understand??
What we are saying is not that different. The truly Caribbean part of Venezuela is a mere sliver. The populated cities are inland. The more distant inland parts of Venezuela are less populated.
Therefore there isn't the dichotomy of an Andean, vs. Caribbean culture in Venezuela, as there is in Colombia.
In fact when I was in Caracas many years ago I did note that most of the population didn't have that "Caribbean" flavor that I thought that they would have. But there were some Caribbean elements visible.
You are the one always insisting in being part of some common collective, there's no common collective whatsoever with English and French sugar factories.
Aah the racist Cuban arises. Hmmm. Now tell us again why reggaeton is so popular within Cuban culture?
You do know that is Jamaican music, yet Cubans (both in Cuba AND in Miami) seem to love it.
But I bet that you are one of those rockeros, who will tell us that only a few thugs like reggaeton.
.
Guarantee that Jamaicans don't care. They believe they are best of the Caribbean...in fact, the best in the world. Not sure who is arguing about a common collective. Every island is cocky as hell about who they are...
I assume that you are referring to St Maarten with its heavy Dominican population, but they also exist, as you say every where in the north east Caribbean, and in fact having very strong demographic influences. Also becoming culturally transformative.
But here is the joke that a certain racist Cuban will deny.
'
From the time that the Caribbean was colonized, there was heavy movement of peoples across language blocs. In fact many Cuban slave owners procured their slaves in Jamaica, in the 18th C, when Cuba wasn't a large enough market to allow frequent direct slave shipments from Africa.
After the Haitian revolution many French slave owners arrived bringing their slaves. This heavily impacted Cuba culturally.
Then there was the significant migration of people from virtually every part of the Caribbean arriving to cut cane. Santiago is a very Caribbean city. I have looked at youtube videos and it can be any where in a majority black Caribbean island.
I know I will hear the squeals that Santiago is a dangerous city filled with very ugly people from our Cuban nationalist.
And yes the Dominicanos are often Cocolos, descendants of people who migrated to the DR from the very islands where they now settle. 80-100 years ago they arrived in the DR, bringing their culture. Now their descendants return, bringing Dominicano culture with them.
I will also inform our resident Cuban racist that Cuba in fact is a hybrid of the English/French Caribbean, with their plantation based cultures, and PR/DR, where the plantation culture died out, and only became revitalized when US corporations moved in around 1900.
I can move around Cuban blacks and feel very much at home. And I am not talking about those with Jamaican/Haitian ancestry.
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Coastal Colombia is nothing like Cuba, Puerto Rico, Dominican Republic or Panama. I can attest to that. It's more like, well, Colombia.
I can count the many times when I have met some one, assumed that they were Dominican, and was told that there were in fact Colombians from the Caribbean coast.
No doubt at the elite levels there is identification with the national mestizo dominated culture, and no doubt the Caribbean region isn't culturally monolithic, but Cartagena is so Caribbean in flavor that it can easily be used to replicate a city in one of the Spanish Caribbean islands.
I assume that you are referring to St Maarten with its heavy Dominican population, but they also exist, as you say every where in the north east Caribbean, and in fact having very strong demographic influences. Also becoming culturally transformative.
But here is the joke that a certain racist Cuban will deny.
'
From the time that the Caribbean was colonized, there was heavy movement of peoples across language blocs. In fact many Cuban slave owners procured their slaves in Jamaica, in the 18th C, when Cuba wasn't a large enough market to allow frequent direct slave shipments from Africa.
After the Haitian revolution many French slave owners arrived bringing their slaves. This heavily impacted Cuba culturally.
Then there was the significant migration of people from virtually every part of the Caribbean arriving to cut cane. Santiago is a very Caribbean city. I have looked at youtube videos and it can be any where in a majority black Caribbean island.
I know I will hear the squeals that Santiago is a dangerous city filled with very ugly people from our Cuban nationalist.
And yes the Dominicanos are often Cocolos, descendants of people who migrated to the DR from the very islands where they now settle. 80-100 years ago they arrived in the DR, bringing their culture. Now their descendants return, bringing Dominicano culture with them.
Actually, I was speaking about St. Thomas but yes, St. Maarten as well.
Good points re Cuba. No island has been in complete isolation from others. It just is what it is.
Not sure what he's rambling about because no one has any interest in affiliating themselves with Cuba or any othere island other than where they come from. LOL.
Last edited by joachim1000; 05-20-2016 at 04:51 AM..
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