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I've read the argument between CaribNY and PabloFuerte and I know I'm a couple months late.....I'd like to state as a person of Afro-Colombian Pacific Coastal Ancestry that the Pacific coast has had influences from all the Antilles....Spanish-Speaking and English-Speaking in certain instances....for example it is said Salsa reached Colombia via the Pacific port city of Buenaventura and that's when Bonaverenses and other Pacific coastal cities starting making their Colombianized/Pacific influenced Salsa like Peregoyo did (one of the first pioneer groups), then leading to world renown Colombian Salsa groups (that happen to be from the Pacific coast) like Grupo Niche and Guayacan. So during the time of Peregoyo, they adopted Antillean music (rooted in Cuba and Puerto Rico) and shunned the Pacific coast's traditional music like Currulao and Bunde for Musica Antillana (Antillean Music/Salsa)...then with newer generations on the Pacific coast, you have youth like Chocquibtown who were influenced by Jamaican and Panamanian Reggae growing up, then incorporating those influences into their music. Recently you have had a resurgence of traditional Pacific coastal music: Currulao, Patakore, Bunde, Juga regain popularity due to festivals like the Petronio Alvarez Pacific Coastal Music festival held in the large city of Cali, which has many Pacific coastal migrants and descendants. Currulao is among the most African genres you can find anywhere in the African diaspora, and that's why it has not been popular in our societies, Salsa incorporated European instruments and "modern" sounds so that's why even until this day you will meet many Black Pacific coastal Colombians who proudly profess they're solely Salseros, (Salsa lovers) and the traditional African-Colombian genres of Currulao are mostly embraced by those lovers of traditional music genres.
On another note.....I had a friend from the Pacific Coast deliver an interesting perspective once....he believes the Colombian Pacific coast is more Caribbean (Afro) than the Colombian Caribbean coast due to our population being mostly Black since the Caribbean islands are mostly Black. It is true that the Colombian Pacific coast is more like Barbados, Haiti, Jamaica, Antigua & Barbuda, St. Kits, Dominica, St. Lucia, etc than the Colombian Caribbean coast is. So basically he was saying, the Colombian Pacific coast is more like the AfroCaribbean/Francophone Caribbean/Anglophone Caribbean than it is like the mixed Hispanaphone Caribbean which is more like Cartagena, Santa Marta and Barranquilla.
Funny enough, once I played our music from the Pacific coast, Currulao, for a Haitian lady and she told me, that sounds like the music from my country! White and Mestizo Colombians have often thought my friends were Haitian in Colombia yet they were just from the Pacific coast. Haha.....we are proud to share heritage ....Black Pacific Colombia and Ayiti, we have a lot in common.
On another note.....I had a friend from the Pacific Coast deliver an interesting perspective once....he believes the Colombian Pacific coast is more Caribbean (Afro) than the Colombian Caribbean coast due to our population being mostly Black since the Caribbean islands are mostly Black. It is true that the Colombian Pacific coast is more like Barbados, Haiti, Jamaica, Antigua & Barbuda, St. Kits, Dominica, St. Lucia, etc than the Colombian Caribbean coast is. So basically he was saying, the Colombian Pacific coast is more like the AfroCaribbean/Francophone Caribbean/Anglophone Caribbean than it is like the mixed Hispanaphone Caribbean which is more like Cartagena, Santa Marta and Barranquilla.
Funny enough, once I played our music from the Pacific coast, Currulao, for a Haitian lady and she told me, that sounds like the music from my country! White and Mestizo Colombians have often thought my friends were Haitian in Colombia yet they were just from the Pacific coast. Haha.....we are proud to share heritage ....Black Pacific Colombia and Ayiti, we have a lot in common.
Why Don't you share some Curralao music with us here on the forum?
It is true that the Colombian Pacific coast is more like Barbados, Haiti, Jamaica, Antigua & Barbuda, St. Kits, Dominica, St. Lucia, etc than the Colombian Caribbean coast is. So basically he was saying, the Colombian Pacific coast is more like the AfroCaribbean/Francophone Caribbean/Anglophone Caribbean than it is like the mixed Hispanaphone Caribbean which is more like Cartagena, Santa Marta and Barranquilla.
Do you mean in terms of geography or in terms of the actual cultural vibe there?
Caribbean south American coast is NOT part of the Caribbean. It has Caribbean influence, to a more or less extent, but it is in south America.
Also, regarding Venezuela, cities like Caracas, Maracay, Valencia, and many of their satellite cities, even though they are located in coastal states, these cities are not in the Caribbean coast, but in inner valleys, at a certain altitude, and separated from the Caribbean sea by mountains. This means that Caracas, Maracay or Valencia are not that Caribbean (neither geographically nor culturally) as lets say, Cartagena or Panama City.
Do you mean in terms of geography or in terms of the actual cultural vibe there?
He must have meant cultural vibe, and not geographic. This given that he refers to the Pacific Coast of Colombia, and not its Caribbean coast.
And yes I can believe that this society, comprised heavily of those descended from slavery, and not (as on the Caribbean coast) a minority group seeking to assimilate into a Euro centered culture, I can believe that a cultural vibe does exist.
Caribbean south American coast is NOT part of the Caribbean. It has Caribbean influence, to a more or less extent, but it is in south America.
Speak for yourself. Maybe in Venezuela the fact that 70% of the population is less than 50km from the Caribbean coast means that you disassociate yourself from the Caribbean in favour of your own identity, the converse happens in Colombia. In the Caribbean region of Colombia they feel fervently Caribbean even upto 250km inland even though they too have their strong local identity. The Caribbean isn't one culture but a plethora of cultures and facets, something coastal Venezuelans don't seem to grasp.
There are plenty of cities in the Caribbean in valleys separated from the coast by mountains; Holguin, Santiago de los Caballeros, Mandeville, Valledupar, etc. Panama isn't even on the Caribbean.
Last edited by Pueblofuerte; 04-23-2016 at 08:46 PM..
Speak for yourself. Maybe in Venezuela the fact that 70% of the population is less than 50km from the Caribbean coast means that you disassociate yourself from the Caribbean in favour of your own identity, the converse happens in Colombia. In the Caribbean region of Colombia they feel fervently Caribbean even upto 250km inland even though they too have their strong local identity. The Caribbean isn't one culture but a plethora of cultures and facets, something coastal Venezuelans don't seem to grasp.
There are plenty of cities in the Caribbean in valleys separated from the coast by mountains; Holguin, Santiago de los Caballeros, Mandeville, Valledupar, etc. Panama isn't even on the Caribbean.
Is not the same comparing Caracas, Maracay or Valencia with Holguin (Cuba) or Santiago de los Caballeros (DR). Those cities are within Caribbean Islands. All Cuba or all Hispaniola are Caribbean (no matter how inside those islands you are), and surrounded by sea everywhere around, in the very core of the Caribbean world.
Caracas, Maracay or Valencia are in south American mainland, and right besides the llanos and the Colombo-Venezuelan Andes, which are both non-Caribbean south American geographical-cultural areas. The llanos are at just one driving hour (or less) from Caracas Maracay or Valencia; and Barquisimeto (with is a Venezuelan city that is exactly at the edge point where the Andes begin) is at 4 driving hours from Caracas and only 2 driving hours from Valencia. This means that Caracas, Maracay, Valencia, and many of their satellite cities, receive a considerable influence from these two regions, not only from the Caribbean. I don't know exactly how to explain it. Is not that they are not Caribbean, because they receive considerable Caribbean influence (I don't negate that), but they are not that "Archie Caribbean" as a coastal Caribbean south American city as lets say Cartagena.
And I know that Panama city is not on the Caribbean (but in the Pacific coast) but nearly all Panama (the country) is lowlands, and there is not any important geographical barrier (like a mountain barrier) between Panama city and the Caribbean sea; and Panama city is too far from the Costa Rican highlands or from the Colombian highlands to be substantially influenced by them. It is only in very direct contact with the Caribbean world, and that's it, while Caracas, Maracay or Valencia are much closer and in direct contact (like being very close on driving distances) with non Caribbean interior south American regions (like the llanos and the Andes), compared to Panama or Cartagena. They might be Caribbean to some extent, but not as much as Panama, Colon or Cartagena.
Last edited by alnortedelsur; 04-24-2016 at 10:45 PM..
Well I have definitely met Venezuelans from Caracas that consider themselves "Caribbean". The Venezuelan accent is different but similar to accents I have heard from other Caribbean people, much more so than any other South Americans I have ever met. They also seem to be big baseball fans like other Caribbean people.
Well I have definitely met Venezuelans from Caracas that consider themselves "Caribbean". The Venezuelan accent is different but similar to accents I have heard from other Caribbean people, much more so than any other South Americans I have ever met. They also seem to be big baseball fans like other Caribbean people.
But the Venezuelan accent doesn't change the Rs by Ls like Puerto Ricans (and to a less extent Dominicans) do. And Venezuela has many different accents, not only the Central Northern accent (Caracas, Maracay, Valencia) that is most known abroad. In the Venezuelan Andes, for example, they speak very similar to Andean Colombians from Santander.
And even the accent from Caracas (at least the one spoken by the middle class) sounds much less Caribbean than the Caribbean accents of DR, PR or Cuba. I met many middle class Andean Colombians from places like Medellin and Bogota, when I lived in Houston, and middle class Venezuelans from Caracas don't speak much different or "much more Caribbean" compared to them.
Even if it is hard to believe by many people, the Venezuelan accents (including the one from Caracas) are not that "extremely distant" from Colombian Andean accents. They share some slight sounding similarities with each other, and this is more noticeable when we compare the accents from their respective middle classes.
The Venezuelan accent, even if it sounds Caribbean to many people, it doesn't sound that Caribbean compared to Puerto Rican, Dominican and Cuban accents. It is more "Caribbean light" compared to those other accents that sound more "hard Caribbean" compared to the Venezuelan accent. And it is much "less distant" to the Andean Colombian accents, than Cuban, Puerto Rican or Dominican accents are to the Colombian Andean accents.
Indeed, now that I think about it, the foreign accent that sounds to me the most similar to the accent from Caracas is not precisely any of the Archie Caribbean accents (ie Puerto Rican, Dominican or Cuban), but the accent from Guayaquil, in Ecuador.
Also, most Venezuelans are baseball fans, but Venezuela has also much more football culture compared to Archie Caribbean countries like PR, DR or Cuba.
I am not saying with all of this, that Venezuela is not Caribbean, or that it is exactly like the rest of South America, because is not. It obviously has more Caribbean influences that most of South America, but is not "Archie Caribbean" either. Is actually more like something in between the Caribbean world and inner south America.
Last edited by alnortedelsur; 04-25-2016 at 11:51 PM..
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