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yes indeed its ironic that Catholicism, which was extremely hostile to these African based religions, became the perfect vehicle to preserve them. Its no accident that its Cuba, Haiti, Trinidad and brazil where this is best preserved, even as Jamaica and Guyana have heavy African influences in other aspects of their cultures.
When one prays directly to God and not through various divinities, and one uses rituals from a book in services its kind of hard to hide non Christian rituals.
A Jamaican friend commented to me that the carrying on in AA Pentecostal Churches comes from Africa.
AAs in the old days (when Pentecostalism first started in America) were accused by some White Pentecostal
ministers as bringing "their heathen ways" into the Christian church. What they really meant was the "Ring Shout" which evolved into the "Holy Dance" which many people will be doing tomorrow morning across
America as they will be attending regular Sunday Services.
They also didn't like the idea of bringing all types of percussion instruments especially drums, into the
church along with guitars and various horns.
Also in New Orleans, they have Spiritualist Churches which incorporate elements of American Indian religion, Voodoo, Catholicism into their religion.
As a lot of this evolved right after Reconstruction, some AAs middle class were against traditional emotional
behaviours usually found in most AA churches also. The AA Pentecostal had and wanted to keep ALL the
traditional emotional behaviours found in AA churches and more, and saw no conflict in bringing Blues,
Ragtime and Jazz into the church.
They felt that the way the slaves worshiped in the brush harbors among themselves was not inferior and
should be preserved.
The elements of African religions and various African cultures were very poorly preserved in the US.
Shouting in a church has nothing to do with actual African religions.
In the African religions they have a richly developed group of gods. Olorun is the creator of the universe, and the other gods/orishas each represented a different aspect of the universe and/or human nature personified. Much like the Greco/Roman and Norse gods, or like the Hindu or Japanese gods.
Veneration of the orishas was well preserved in Latin America and in the Catholic parts of the Caribbean. When one honors the gods, each god has his or her favorite sacrificial plant and animal (and even alcoholic beverages) that are offered to the gods. Usage of sacred herbs for healing and at times to get high is a part of these religions. They uven go as far as to preserve Yoruba as a ritual language for ceremonies, and certain other African based religions have preserved elements of languages from the Congo.
As they are tropical climates, the same food grown in Africa could be grown in Latin America, so culturally Afro-Latinos eat food much more influenced by Africans. Their music is a lot more African influenced, and many Latino artists (the Black ones) incorporate African religion or substantial elements of the African disapora into their songs. Listen to Celia's music, many of her songs incorporated Santeria or other aspects of African/black identity into her music and the same is true of many other AfroLatino artists.
Pentacolist churches is just basic Protestantism with some screams.
I had an interesting conversation with a Nigerian once, he said " you and everybody else comes from Africa" I was thinking
in terms of science since he was a grad student. I said, "It is true most black americans don't know their exact origin in
Africa and it is said people evolved first in Africa..He then said THIS: "Olodumare had seven sons and 1 was the sun-god and
everybody on the Earth came from that...something to that effect..Then it dawned on me, This guy is a traditionalist. I said
Oh like OSHUN she is one of your goddesses right?
He said, "You people just see water, we see Oshun" I was thinking this is deep and over my head...What was interesting was
that the few African traditionalists I met, I noticed that their religious beliefs just come out in the conversation naturally.
This guy was a grad student in Engineering attending a well-known university....
I agree that there is no authentic overt African religions among AAs (unless they recently convert I guess)..but I DO think
the shouting and dancing and percussion instruments is based on the African concept of dancing,shouting and frenzied music as a way of worship.
yes indeed its ironic that Catholicism, which was extremely hostile to these African based religions, became the perfect vehicle to preserve them. Its no accident that its Cuba, Haiti, Trinidad and brazil where this is best preserved, even as Jamaica and Guyana have heavy African influences in other aspects of their cultures.
When one prays directly to God and not through various divinities, and one uses rituals from a book in services its kind of hard to hide non Christian rituals.
The rise of the Pentecostalism has given life to more African influenced religious practices as I showed in links above, but these aren't directly tied to specific African religions.
Catholicism is used to integrate and assimilate alien religions, as behind a Saint there's always a pagan sanctity. That's why Protestants say that Catholics are pagan and idol worshipper. No hostility, but as it was a "cosa de negros" it was not elegant or kosher among traditional bourgeoisie, including mulatto bourgeoisie.
Castro always hated Santeria, Batista was an open Santeria follower and his sign was the crane, a santeria symbol.
Well ... talk about a shocker. Somethings that some other posters mentioned triggered me to looking to something because I serious has no idea bout Sango and knew little about the shouter baptist in Trindad as my family in Trinidad is Roman Catholic with mainly European and Middle Eastern Roots. I got this CD with music relating to Shango, Obeah and Shouter Bapists. Wow... talk about making my jaw drop. Some of these songs I knew. I have heard ... but was not actually listening to the worlds and understanding that the songs where about.
I recall hearing some of things songs in the past... but hearing and not focusing on what the singer was saying/ the meaning. Even though Trinidadian dialect is my mother tongue ( I grew up in a house with a mother, father and grandmother who were born in Trinidad and lived in Tridad) I dont speak that dialect, but generally understand it... but not always exactly understand the exact meaning of what is said. These songs are a perfect example.
In my opinion in Trindad speach and conversation incorporat a lot of slang and word play. The literal meaning of what is said is not often the actually meaning behind what the person is trying to tell you. For explaintains often blend in expressions and parables that don't always easily translate in to standard north american english.
So a lot of what those songs where talking about I did not procress when hearing them. I have heard the expressions and some of the narratives in the songs... but never really processed the situation. My parents... likely more my father then mother would probably know more about this topic. He grew up in San Fernando and later his family moved to Port of Spain. My mother was born and raised in Port of Spain and other then going to the beach I dont think she explored too much otherwise. My mother is the most un-Trinidadian Trinidadian person I have ever met and I honestly think she was born just wanting to get off that island. I seriously think she wanted to move to Venezuela like one of her Aunts. She also looked like Mary Ann from Gillians Island.
The elements of African religions and various African cultures were very poorly preserved in the US.
Shouting in a church has nothing to do with actual African religions.
.
The reason why black and white Baptists worship differently (and in fact why black American Baptists worship not unlike similar groups in the Caribbean and West Africa) is because of the residual African influences.
This isn't about the formal structures of the religions surviving. They couldn't as it would have been harder to disguise them, and in any case it was only in the early years (1620 to 1770) when large numbers of the slaves would have been African born.
But to say that there are no African influences is not accurate.
Ibut I DO think
the shouting and dancing and percussion instruments is based on the African concept of dancing,shouting and frenzied music as a way of worship.
It certainly didn't evolve out of the Scots Irish.
Catholicism is used to integrate and assimilate alien religions, as behind a Saint there's always a pagan sanctity. That's why Protestants say that Catholics are pagan and idol worshipper. No hostility, but as it was a "cosa de negros" it was not elegant or kosher among traditional bourgeoisie, including mulatto bourgeoisie.
Castro always hated Santeria, Batista was an open Santeria follower and his sign was the crane, a santeria symbol.
That's interesting, I've heard Castro used Santeria.
Most AAs know nothing about the orishas. Hoodoo isn't a religion even. You'd hear rumors that someone could work basically magic, but nobody would know what an orisha, a sacred herb, a ritual sacrifice, or anything.
Most AAs know nothing about the orishas. Hoodoo isn't a religion even. You'd hear rumors that someone could work basically magic, but nobody would know what an orisha, a sacred herb, a ritual sacrifice, or anything.
Essentially AAs have no African based religion.
I'm not sure why you seem to think Orishas exist in every religion. And none of the aforementioned religions (many would not even called these practices religions, especially Obeah) are practiced by a majority of people in their nations of origin so that is a moot point.
There is no "essentially", Louisiana voodoo and Hoodoo exist. Therefore your last statement is wrong.
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