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I used to think African Americans had the biggest inferiority complexes when it came to race. Well now they have to share the top spot with Latin Americans...yes all of you, from Mexico, to Colombia to Brazil, I've never seen any other group of people in such denial of their roots. I've met people who would be considered Hispanic. Back home they are considered white, and would fight you for not calling them that here in the US. I hate to be the bearer of bad news, perhaps your original ancestor was from Spain or whatever, but then he was a real dog with jungle fever, he and his kids/grand kids must have been banging every Indian and African from then on because you sir don't look even remotely European lol
Then you have the Hispanic blacks. I'm from Nigeria originally, that's in west Africa for those who don't know. 100 per cent pure African. Yet I've met blacks from Colombia and brazil who are darker than me, with hair just as nappy, who insist that they are not black at all, but rather mixed Indian/European. The actress Zoe Saldana comes to mind. I remember there was an interview where she was asked what her heritage was. She proceeded to mention several European countries plus Indian. Not a mention of African at all. What is ironic is that she had not any problems accepting acting roles in which she plays African American women mind you. I guess money over ancestry.
Your post reminded me of a post someone made in another forum discussing the surprise many had with the genetic results of many latinos. These Dominicans were among the evidence presented in the arguments of many that have them as genetic cousins.
I also remember reading an article based on some ancestral DNA study that was done in Brazil that found that the average Brazilian that self-identify as black is genetically majority European. I´ll see if I can find it tomorrow, when I have the time.
If it wasn´t for the DNA studies that keep popping up and all basically coincide with very similar results, I too would think that dark latinos that claim to be mixed instead of black were in some sort of denial or simply lying. DNA studies keep siding with the latinos than with the non-latinos that judge them negatively for basically saying what they are.
In general, the genetic make up of afro-latinos doesn´t resembles the genetic make up seen among most African Americans or non-Hispanic Caribbean blacks. Perhaps this is what leads to the misunderstandings between the afro-anglos and afro-latinos. The afro-anglos want the afro-latinos to be exactly like them, except that genetic studies keep demonstrating that the two groups aren´t the same. To complicate matters, latinos in general are so mixed that often times their physical appearances doesn´t fully show them how they are genetically orat least not how many non-latinos think a person with the latino level of admixture should look.
If that´s the case with the dark ones, imagine what the genetic reality is like for the typical light skin ones.
I spent 4 weeks in the Cibao, and the racism towards Haitians disgusted me. Particulary ironic were the Dominicans who complained about how poorly they were treated while working without papers in Puerto Rico, only to turn around and tell me that Haitians were thieving monkeys who practiced voodoo (I kid you not). Funny how many don´t feel empathy, even when the shoe is on the other foot.
Listen, Haitians over there work hard, really hard. Even if they´ve been living there for generations, they´re essentially invisible and will forever be treated poorly and never afforded citizenship. I guess intermarriage with Dominicans is upward mobility, but many people also refuse to recognize that these mixed marriages are even a thing. What if your family could never get US Citizenship? Would that be ok with you?
I am against all xenophobia, period. So no, I think your idea sucks.
Also, don´t drop statistics on race. We all know Dominicans try to ¨lighten¨their own racial identity. Mestizos call themselves rubios, morenos call themselves indios and black Dominicans call themselves moreno. Put 80% of those folks on the average street corner in the US and they´ll be identified as black, much to their self-loathing horror. Cut it with the Trujillo complex, you can´t share the same island and treat each other like an alien species.
Your post reminded me of a post someone made in another forum discussing the surprise many had with the genetic results of many latinos. These Dominicans were among the evidence presented in the arguments of many that have them as genetic cousins.
I also remember reading an article based on some ancestral DNA study that was done in Brazil that found that the average Brazilian that self-identify as black is genetically majority European. I´ll see if I can find it tomorrow, when I have the time.
If it wasn´t for the DNA studies that keep popping up and all basically coincide with very similar results, I too would think that dark latinos that claim to be mixed instead of black were in some sort of denial or simply lying. DNA studies keep siding with the latinos than with the non-latinos that judge them negatively for basically saying what they are.
In general, the genetic make up of afro-latinos doesn´t resembles the genetic make up seen among most African Americans or non-Hispanic Caribbean blacks. Perhaps this is what leads to the misunderstandings between the afro-anglos and afro-latinos. The afro-anglos want the afro-latinos to be exactly like them, except that genetic studies keep demonstrating that the two groups aren´t the same. To complicate matters, latinos in general are so mixed that often times their physical appearances doesn´t fully show them how they are genetically orat least not how many non-latinos think a person with the latino level of admixture should look.
If that´s the case with the dark ones, imagine what the genetic reality is like for the typical light skin ones.
You do know that African-Americans (Indigenous Black Americans) average roughly 25% European ancestry, right? The average--meaning half have much more than that.
You do know that African-Americans (Indigenous Black Americans) average roughly 25% European ancestry, right? The average--meaning half have much more than that.
I know very well the history of the USA and why mixed people are often one-drop-ruled. I also know that in most other countries mixed people are seen as different from blacks and this isn’t a phenomenon of mainly Hispanic countries. It happens in Haiti too as well as in most Sub-Saharan African countries. The US has a very unique history regarding this that simply doesn’t apply outside of the country. Interestingly enough, I get the impression that even within the US things are changing with an increasing number of Americans simply saying that the one-drop-rule doesn’t apply anymore and an increasing acceptance of seeing mixed people as mixed. This is not mainstream yet, but it is growing as the mixed population itself continues to grow.
With that said, the most recurring percentage of Euro in genetic studies that have been done in African Americans is 16%, but we must also remember that they are including the heavily mixed population there too, which is a minority in the African American community. The actual Euro component in the non-heavily mixed blacks, lets call them the real blacks, is in the single digits and in many its basically 0%. There is nothing wrong with that, because its simply reality.
In the seconf genetic study I cited in my previous post they included two African American groups and its very clear that the African component (the pinkish/reddish bars represents African ancestry and the blue bars European) is the overwhelming majority in their ancestry, very similar to the Barbadians which were also included in the study (and the Barbadian results are typical for the English Caribbean). In the first genetic study I cited they also included Haitians and they too have a similar composition to blacks from the English Caribbean and blacks from the USA (red represents Euro ancestry and green reps African).
With Dominicans and other afro-latinos the overall results don’t look similar to those of English Caribbeans, Haitians or African Americans. This shouldn’t be much of a surprise because in the case of Dominicans, the average person looks different from how the average African American looks. People notice this all the time, especially African American men when they refer to the looks of Dominican women.
Well, I doubt these folks were lying. I met and spoke with people in Santiago and Puerto Plata who had done the journey in yola, also I lived in PR and I guess you're right, more Dominicans there had come over from Santo Domingo, San Pedro, etc. The point I'm making is that it's very unfortunate to be discriminated against as an economic migrant looking for a better life, only to turn around and do the same thing to others when you get home.
Well, maybe you're the one who's lying and making up these BS stories, it's not the first time someone does this in a forum. I've never once heard of people from Santiago or anywhere else from the interior region of DR boarding on yolas to migrate to Puerto Rico, so your stories sound fishy. Regardless the people who migrate to Puerto Rico are from the lowest class of this country, so of course they're the type people who COMPETE with Haitians in the job market, and Haitians drive down minimum wages. Logically if we had less Haitians in DR there would be less Dominicans migrating abroad. Also, there are plenty of Haitians migrating to Puerto Rico right now, in fact I'm sure there are more Haitians migrating to Puerto Rico than Dominicans, lol and the Dominicans are the smugglers now. I don't know if you heard the news, but Puerto Rico has been going through economic crisis for about a decade now. When was the last time you been to Puerto Rico or DR?
Here's a video of the Dominican navy capturing a boat full of Haitians headed to Puerto Rico.
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I am making no attempt to put American racial labels on Dominicans, but the original poster is throwing around questionable demographic statistics to try to justify building a wall to keep out the "black" Haitians?Nah, don't play that. Someone else could come along and challenge the Dominican racial self-image, that's all I'm saying. The shoe could wind up on the other foot real fast.
What the hell are you even talking about? You're from a country where people think "LATINO" is a race, and most have trouble differentiating between race/phenotypes and ethnicity in the USA. All kinds of racially ambiguous brown people are marked down as white in American police reports, and you have non-sensical ethnic labels like "White Non-Hispanic". lol There where idiots in your country who where literally calling someone like George Zimmermann a white man, while he would be seen as "Jabao" or "Trigueño" in most parts of DR, a non-white. I don't think our racial labels are any more flawed then yours, in fact we're more descriptive and specific, we analyze every feature and have terms describing those combination of features instead of simply calling everyone "white" or "black" in your binary manner.
Your post reminded me of a post someone made in another forum discussing the surprise many had with the genetic results of many latinos. These Dominicans were among the evidence presented in the arguments of many that have them as genetic cousins.
I'm a Dominican from the south(Bani) and I would consider all those people you posted as black, and they would all be called "moreno" or "negro" where I'm from. Everybody is mixed in DR but people who look predominately African are still seen as black in most parts of the country regardless of admixture. Where did people get this stupid idea that Afro-Dominicans are unaware of their African roots? Regardless of whether or not people embrace their blacker phenotypes, they're is still completely aware that they are black, and are reminded that they are black by being around lighter Dominicans.
Dominicans that look like this are obviously not going to be seen the same as the people posted above.
I don't know if building a wall is the smartest use of taxpayer funds. Maybe penalize all the Dominican employers that recruit illegal Haitian labor and work with the Haitian Government to stabilize the country/improve their economy???? Which is what the US should be doing with Mexico/Central America.
I agree, that's a good idea. Unfortunately, many people are more worried about going to another country and making it another hellhole, then staying in theirs and fixing their own hellhole they are trying to escape. And the governments are corrupt and incompetent. And to be honest, I truly believe the Haitian government is secretly encouraging Haitian immigration to the Dominican Republic, in an effort to reconquer our side of the island, mass immigration first and then annexation or military invasion second. If you understand the mind of most Haitians (they want the whole island for themselves), you will understand why a monster like Trujillo was necessary.
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Originally Posted by ReineDeCoeur
Well you set the tone by emphasizing race in the initial post...
No, I was just pointing out some of the major differences (race/culture/language), but that's NOT the basis of the wall. They bring too much unwanted things, we already have problems with crime with our own native Dominicans, why would we want to allow illegal immigrants that will add to that. Not only that, there's just too many coming to a small country, we are not a country with vast open wilderness like Russia, like i said its like pouring water in a already full and overflowing cup. If they are not going to work together and fix their country they can ALL immigrate to some country back in Africa and leave the whole island for us, or we can build a wall along the border.
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Originally Posted by waffleiron1968
DR women are amongst the finest on Earth. Protect the resource at all costs.
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