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I have a spreadsheet with ratings for all the cities in a number of weighted categories, yielding an overall rating for each city out of 100 points. 6 months ago when I first created the rating, all 5 of these cities were separated by just 1 point out of 100. Now with some updated scoring, the difference is 2.4 points between the highest and lowest of these 5. Point is, it is extremely close and the differences on paper are negligible. Hopefully as we visit more often in person with the mindset of relocating, the apparent choice will begin to separate itself from the pack. Perhaps what we will do at some point is a trial run (several weeks in each place, or months, whatever) and then really get a good idea before we commit and go through formal immigration.
The earliest we will make this move is Summer of 2020. The latest we plan to move is Summer of 2023. We want to be settled back in the US by 2029 and I hope to do a few years of perpetual travel before that too
Do you live in Taipei? I've lived in Taipei since 1998 and have bought, sold and rented several properties there in Yonghe, Junghe, Wugu, Dazhi, Da'an and Xizhi. Anyone who knows anything about property prices in Taipei and New Taipei City knows that a decent 3 bedroom, 2 bathroom apartment is in the 30 million NTD range.
Even if that's true, OP's other options are multiple times more expensive. If a decent 3 bedroom is 1 million USD in Taipei, it's most likely 5 million in Hong Kong and Singapore. Probably more.
Besides, a 3 bedroom apartment is expensive everywhere. The listings in places like Vienna are closing in €2 million and Vienna is probably the most affordable major city in Europe for housing. You can get a house with a lot less in the US because there are unlimited suburbs to build houses on, small countries don't have that.
And for the last time, THE OP IS NOT LOOKING TO BUY ANY ****. Can you not read?
I provided actual statistics on Taipei's PM2.5 concentration and it showed that the air quality was comparable to Singapore and was better than HK and Macau by a huge margin in 2018.
It is true that in the south the air quality is often really poor in winter, but the OP is looking to move to Taipei. If you want to rant on Taiwan's air quality maybe you can start a new topic instead of hijacking this one.
Singapore and Hong Kong are very cosmopolitan, but the costs are just so high. If you live in the other cities, you can visit Hong Kong or Singapore regularly just based on the cost savings you got. If you live in these two cities, just to be able to live in a slightly bigger apartment, it's hard to have any excess funds for a trip to elsewhere. Even a trip to Hong Kong Disneyland or to Universal Studios Singapore seems too excessive. Unless you make lots of money to be considered wealthy by Hong Kong or Singapore standards, most middle class Hong Kongers or Singaporeans I know make regular trips to Shenzhen or Johor Bahru to buy cheaper things or avail of cheaper services, and cannot afford to go travel elsewhere.
I would caution against that line of thinking. Anywhere that you need to fly to, regardless of how close it is, does not make it an accessible location that you can consider part of your immediate amenities. If you live in Penang, you can't really consider yourself as living in or getting the benefits/amenities of Singapore through visiting. Same with living in Taipei/Macau and traveling to Hong Kong. Only if a distance is drive-able would I consider that as a factor in my choice. For example, I live a fairly easy 3 hour flight from Los Angeles where some friends and family live, and I go there once every few years. A flight, especially with family, just isn't that convenient to take, and if you have the opportunity and vacation days to actually take a flight, you'd likely go elsewhere that you haven't been before for travel.
All that to say, you can't really get the benefits and enjoyment out of living in Singapore/Hong Kong without actually living in Singapore/Hong Kong.
OP if you can comfortably afford either, and it's a temporary rental thing where you aren't committed to the market, I would just live in the city you want to most be in for the next 5-10 years. Forum opinions are going to be hard to paint a useful picture; like you had suggested for yourself, I would visit for some time all of these places and decide which one speaks the most to you.
Actually most Middle Class in Hong Kong take frequent trips to Japan instead of China. Hong Kong is the 4th largest source of incoming tourists to Japan (after China, Korea, Taiwan but ahead of U.S.). There are many budget airlines that serve HK-Japan routes and some even fly to remote cities in Hokkaido and Kyushu. According to some polls, some HKers make more than 20 trips to Japan every year. There is a joke that teases many HKers have a second hometown -- Japan.
Most folks who go to Shenzhen on weekend are lower class and lower middle class and they tend to be older folks. In fact, about one million people in HK never apply for a Home Return Permit (the document that is required for HKer to visit China). That means about 1 out of 7 in HK has never set foot on any part of China even after 22 years!
Actually most Middle Class in Hong Kong take frequent trips to Japan instead of China. Hong Kong is the 4th largest source of incoming tourists to Japan (after China, Korea, Taiwan but ahead of U.S.). There are many budget airlines that serve HK-Japan routes and some even fly to remote cities in Hokkaido and Kyushu. According to some polls, some HKers make more than 20 trips to Japan every year. There is a joke that teases many HKers have a second hometown -- Japan.
Most folks who go to Shenzhen on weekend are lower class and lower middle class and they tend to be older folks. In fact, about one million people in HK never apply for a Home Return Permit (the document that is required for HKer to visit China). That means about 1 out of 7 in HK has never set foot on any part of China even after 22 years!
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I would caution against that line of thinking. Anywhere that you need to fly to, regardless of how close it is, does not make it an accessible location that you can consider part of your immediate amenities. If you live in Penang, you can't really consider yourself as living in or getting the benefits/amenities of Singapore through visiting. Same with living in Taipei/Macau and traveling to Hong Kong. Only if a distance is drive-able would I consider that as a factor in my choice. For example, I live a fairly easy 3 hour flight from Los Angeles where some friends and family live, and I go there once every few years. A flight, especially with family, just isn't that convenient to take, and if you have the opportunity and vacation days to actually take a flight, you'd likely go elsewhere that you haven't been before for travel.
All that to say, you can't really get the benefits and enjoyment out of living in Singapore/Hong Kong without actually living in Singapore/Hong Kong.
OP if you can comfortably afford either, and it's a temporary rental thing where you aren't committed to the market, I would just live in the city you want to most be in for the next 5-10 years. Forum opinions are going to be hard to paint a useful picture; like you had suggested for yourself, I would visit for some time all of these places and decide which one speaks the most to you.
I appreciate your input and I agree that being close to a city isn't the same as living in it. Otherwise it wouldn't matter which city we picked, they are all relatively close to each other! Note: you should have left Macau off your example though. It is easily drivable to Hong Kong and in fact, less than an hour by ferry. From our condo in Macau we can be at Sheung Wan in under an hour and a half, which is faster than taking the MTR from the outskirts of HK itself.
Without a doubt, Singapore or Hong Kong would be our top choice disregarding cost. And we should indeed be able to live comfortably in both. HOWEVER, it is impossible to entirely disregard it when you consider the type of lifestyle you could afford in, eg Penang, for the same price. Comfortable in HK is probably more expensive than luxurious in Penang.
You can live in Hong Kong relatively less expensive by living in some communities on the neighboring islands, i.e. Discovery Bay on Lantau Island.
In those communities, the rent/price of property is relatively cheaper, low density and you have a feeling like living in a foreign country because a lot of the units are occupied by expatriates. Moreover, cars are banned so you have better air quality.
The only humbug is when typhoon comes, you have to rush to go home because the ferry service will be suspended.
How close are you with your relatives and how close is your wife with hers? I think if you wanted them to learn the home language then actually having people outside of school that you think will interact with your kids in that language is probably pretty good. I actually learned Hokkien in the US pretty much entirely off of conversations between older family members via immersion.
Also, as the plan is only to be there for a few years, then I think saving up through the more economical options to spend on trips around the region would seem to me like a great idea in terms of both pedagogy and seeing family.
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