Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
No, we don't really have to do anything, but we usually do what we think is logically right.
Oh, come off it. What I meant was obvious. Of course you don't HAVE to do anything but pay taxes and die.
Quote:
Originally Posted by GenesisNemesis
And that's the point of living a good life while you have it. Does it matter if you see your loved ones when after you die? No. What matters is what happens before you die. This gives me much more hope for this life. Hope in the afterlife? I just don't see a point. Also, did you not not exist before you were born? What's so bad about assuming that happens after you die?
I believe there is a happy medium to be found, and obviously many people have not. You are absolutely right about living a good life--I have always thought that life was meant to be LIVED, not spent kneeling on a hard bench praying 24/7. But there is also something to be said for developing the spiritual.
So yes, it is possible to become so focused on the afterlife that you completely waist the life you have here and now. But I don't believe that we simply popped into existance when we were conceived--I believe that we existed before our current state of conciousness. So again, to me the thought of ceasing to exist, of never seeing loved ones ever again...it doesn't make sense, doesn't feel right, and is horrifying, frankly.
Quote:
Originally Posted by GenesisNemesis
"Human development"? I thought it was spiritual development. Anyways, I'd say Christians are missing out on living life to it's fullest, and being free of the pressures and threats of hellfire. By "living life to it's fullest" I'm not talking about what you may call "sexual immorality" or drinking and eating excessively, I'm just talking about living your lives, free from praying to God, free from going to Church, and just finally being yourselves.
Spritual development is part of human development. You're nitpicking.
You sure do know alot about millions of people you have never met. I for one, am a Christian who DOES NOT believe in hellfire, at least not in the traditional sense. I feel that "living life to it's fullest" includes spiritual development, which results in REAL freedom. I serve and love God not because of some threat of hellfire, but because He is a benevolent God who rewards those who diligently seek Him.
I believe there is a happy medium to be found, and obviously many people have not. You are absolutely right about living a good life--I have always thought that life was meant to be LIVED, not spent kneeling on a hard bench praying 24/7. But there is also something to be said for developing the spiritual.
Depends what you mean by "spiritual". I like to say "emotional".
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffncandace
So yes, it is possible to become so focused on the afterlife that you completely waist the life you have here and now. But I don't believe that we simply popped into existance when we were conceived--I believe that we existed before our current state of conciousness. So again, to me the thought of ceasing to exist, of never seeing loved ones ever again...it doesn't make sense, doesn't feel right, and is horrifying, frankly.
Well, I've learned to accept things based on evidence, whether they feel right or not.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffncandace
Spritual development is part of human development. You're nitpicking.
Again, what do you mean by spiritual?
Y
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffncandace
ou sure do know alot about millions of people you have never met. I for one, am a Christian who DOES NOT believe in hellfire, at least not in the traditional sense. I feel that "living life to it's fullest" includes spiritual development, which results in REAL freedom. I serve and love God not because of some threat of hellfire, but because He is a benevolent God who rewards those who diligently seek Him.
'Kay. I still cannot understand the idea of any sort of Deity, though.
Last edited by GenesisNemesis; 08-07-2007 at 12:13 PM..
So here goes... WHY do athiests mock us for believing in something that "hasn't been scientifically proven to exist" (our faith)... ?
Aren't you, as an Athiest choosing to believe in something that "hasn't scientifically been proven to NOT exist" (your faith?)
My question being one of true confusion... I was not a believer for most of my life.. well I DID believe in God, just not in any religion, and I certainly questioned ... because I wanted PROOF! I happen to be one of the lucky ones, who, in my time of need...truly ASKED for some proof, help, reassurance, whatever.. and I wanted/needed it so badly... thank GOD himself that HE chose to show me PHYSICALLY that I wasn't alone.. I'll be eternally (literally ) grateful for that proof HE chose to show me.
Another question is this... have you ever REALLY wanted proof that God does exist? Have you without a doubt SERIOUSLY asked God, opened your mind and your heart to the POSSIBILITY? Until you can do that... why should you be given proof at all? God certainly doesn't owe you, nor me, nor any other human being anything... The Bible just asks that we have FAITH. I choose to have FAITH and am truly, truly greatful that I was helped along in that area. I am SO glad I have something to believe in, to cherish and to look forward to for my loved ones. It's an awfully lonely world out there believing in nothing other than us being worm-dirt and the randomness of all things.
So here goes... WHY do athiests mock us for believing in something that "hasn't been scientifically proven to exist" (our faith)... ?
Not all atheists mock. It depends how tolerant of religion they are.
Quote:
Originally Posted by desiree253
Aren't you, as an Athiest choosing to believe in something that "hasn't scientifically been proven to NOT exist" (your faith?)
No. Scientifically speaking, something that cannot be proven to exist is not worth searching for.
Quote:
Originally Posted by desiree253
My question being one of true confusion... I was not a believer for most of my life.. well I DID believe in God, just not in any religion, and I certainly questioned ... because I wanted PROOF! I happen to be one of the lucky ones, who, in my time of need...truly ASKED for some proof, help, reassurance, whatever.. and I wanted/needed it so badly... thank GOD himself that HE chose to show me PHYSICALLY that I wasn't alone.. I'll be eternally (literally ) grateful for that proof HE chose to show me.
Why hasn't He shown any of us? Oh well. I can't verify your claim, so I might as well not accept it as true.
Quote:
Originally Posted by desiree253
Another question is this... have you ever REALLY wanted proof that God does exist? Have you without a doubt SERIOUSLY asked God, opened your mind and your heart to the POSSIBILITY? Until you can do that... why should you be given proof at all? God certainly doesn't owe you, nor me, nor any other human being anything... The Bible just asks that we have FAITH. I choose to have FAITH and am truly, truly greatful that I was helped along in that area. I am SO glad I have something to believe in, to cherish and to look forward to for my loved ones. It's an awfully lonely world out there believing in nothing other than us being worm-dirt and the randomness of all things.
All the other religions ask that we have faith too. Can't we choose anything besides Christianity?
No. Scientifically speaking, something that cannot be proven to exist is not worth searching for.
Uhh.. you don't believe in God because science can't prove in its existence, yet you DO believe HE doesn't exist even though science can't prove he doesn't? Wow.. how doublestandardish is that logic?... Is that even a word? Who knows, who cares? LOL
Why hasn't He shown any of us? Oh well. I can't verify your claim, so I might as well not accept it as true.
Ummm, He has shown SOME of us. And, No you can't verify my claim in any way shape or form. You don't need to believe me, or verify MY experience. Heck, choose to believe I'm lying to you, or making it all up, whatever. But my point was not whether you believe in MY faith... It was just asking if you ever REALLY wanted proof for yourself (your OWN proof, for just YOU, no-one else), had you EVER really left yourself open to the possibility that if you asked, you MIGHT recieve the proof you so easily scoff that others have been given? It was a question for you and you alone.. it need not be answered to ME.. I just wanted you to truthfully answer that question in your OWN mind. That's all
All the other religions ask that we have faith too. Can't we choose anything besides Christianity?
I'm a true believer in the Bible and God, therefore, I accept that you have the freedom to "choose" anything you want to! But you have to understand that us "Christians" feel the need to share our belief in God in order for the possibility that we may reach someone with our experiences, thoughts, etc. and that we are NOT ashamed of God, just as you are most likely not ashamed of being an Athiest!
There truly are fanatics in every walk of life, no matter their belief system. Some of us Christians are just good ole' guys and gals that love God, Jesus, and even you too! LOL
I'm a true believer in the Bible and God, therefore, I accept that you have the freedom to "choose" anything you want to! But you have to understand that us "Christians" feel the need to share our belief in God in order for the possibility that we may reach someone with our experiences, thoughts, etc. and that we are NOT ashamed of God, just as you are most likely not ashamed of being an Athiest!
What does "true believer" mean? I'm a "true disbeliever" in God. Anyways, you have no need to share your belief in God to those who disbelieve. They've already proven God doesn't exist in their heads.
To paraphrase a famous quote, everyone is an atheist, some just choose to not believe in one more god than others. If believers question why atheists don't believe in the Christian god, they should just ask themselves why they don't believe in the Greek gods, Roman gods, Hindu gods, etc. and the answer should be clear.
Well, because an uncaused deity would be outside the natural order of things, outside of time and space, perhaps, and our known physical laws so to speak. An eternal universe or whatever would not be. That's why I think it's more logical. Of course, plus the fact I think there is other evidence that points to God. But just speaking from the purely logical...
What is more logical about assuming the supernatural? How can logic be applied to something which, by definition, cannot be understood, explained or evidenced?
Why would this cause be a deity? I could just as easily claim that first cause is a force rather than a being. Either explanation is equally in/valid.
well who determines what is right or wrong ?,why is anything wrong if nothing we do matters except in this world?of course many things once considered wrong have evolved into something ok.and other things like slavery that were once considered ok are now considered wrong by just about everyone.morality is a complicated issue because religion has given us mixed messages but without a higher power what is right or wrong is in the eye of the beholder.
Yes, morality is indeed in the eye of the beholder.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
