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Location: In a little house on the prairie - literally
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arach Angle
You have to get real. Its not about god. Its about stopping your inability to control yourself.
there is absolutely no requirement to believe in god to be in AA. Nobody in aa should be telling you that there is one. G_O_D can be a group of drunks helping you. That is it. That Group of drunks can help you better than yourself by yourself most times. Basicly it is about people helping people. NO GOD NEEDED!!!
Don't blame somebody else believing on your fall. Addiction is a chemical reaction. if you keep the reactants separated there will be no reaction. the worst thing that can happen is that you don't mess things up worse by being high or drunk and you will make a mistake using a clear head. Which is far better than a mistake while being drunk/high.
Also, you have to remember the time when it was written. "meditation" is a good thing. Period, end of discussion. If I have to go into why; you need a better mentor. Ignore the "praying to god" parts.
But I am not sure you are being totally honest with us because of how you describe "sky daddy" and don't describe AA properly.
Except I outlined the huge emphasis on a god in this post:
Yes there is god in there because most people believe. And look at when it was written. But it is not a requirement. The only real requirement is that you face yourself in the mirror, use the group to help describe what you see, and try not to drink or drug. IMHO that is.
If a person does not believe in god then they do not have to believe in god in AA. It is totally acceptable, welcomed, and sometimes even respected in that group. I say this because if there is another atheist in the group and you stand up and say you are one then we may have two drunks helping each other through that book. They can even laugh together at sky daddy ... and stay sober doing it. That's the point. '
also, remember, if we don't like AA or al then leave ... go to where it will help you not drink or help deal with a drunk. I am sure they will tell you that too. That is the number point anyway. don't drink/drug and do whatever it takes not to. if leaving aa does it for you ... do it!!
I find myself in the untenable position of being an agnostic in a 12 step program. I’ve been clean for almost five years. The trouble is I don’t actually believe that some magic Santa Claus in the sky is keeping me clean. I believe that I’m staying clean through the power of one addict helping another. I know I can’t stay clean by myself, I've tried. For the most part 12 step programs give a person the freedom to choose their own “Higher Power,” but when I started getting into the steps I’ve found that the wording really throws me off.
For example, I've been stuck on Step 11 for over a year: “Sought through prayer and meditation to improve our conscious contact with God as we understood him.” I prayed for the first 3 years I was in recovery because it is suggested but it felt artificial the entire time and I never got any benefit from it. So I stopped.
I want to stay clean. I don’t want to relapse or run on self-will like I was but I can’t honestly pray or meditate. They say meditation is listening for God’s answer –well, all I hear when I try to meditate is the sound of my own scrambled thoughts. And frankly, if I heard God’s voice I would check myself into the nearest psychiatric ward anyway.
I’m wondering if there are any other atheists/agnostics out there in 12 step programs that could help me out. I feel really stuck and I am afraid of relapse.
No you arent stuck on step 11.
You lied in step 3.
I don't have any addictions, but my higher power has always been the chaos of the universe. From what I understand about 12-step programs, you just need a higher power, doesn't necessarily need to be a god. Or am I wrong on that?
I don't have any addictions, but my higher power has always been the chaos of the universe. From what I understand about 12-step programs, you just need a higher power, doesn't necessarily need to be a god. Or am I wrong on that?
That's what I was told when I accompanied my wife to AA meetings.
I find myself in the untenable position of being an agnostic in a 12 step program. I’ve been clean for almost five years. The trouble is I don’t actually believe that some magic Santa Claus in the sky is keeping me clean. I believe that I’m staying clean through the power of one addict helping another. I know I can’t stay clean by myself, I've tried. For the most part 12 step programs give a person the freedom to choose their own “Higher Power,” but when I started getting into the steps I’ve found that the wording really throws me off.
For example, I've been stuck on Step 11 for over a year: “Sought through prayer and meditation to improve our conscious contact with God as we understood him.” I prayed for the first 3 years I was in recovery because it is suggested but it felt artificial the entire time and I never got any benefit from it. So I stopped.
I want to stay clean. I don’t want to relapse or run on self-will like I was but I can’t honestly pray or meditate. They say meditation is listening for God’s answer –well, all I hear when I try to meditate is the sound of my own scrambled thoughts. And frankly, if I heard God’s voice I would check myself into the nearest psychiatric ward anyway.
I’m wondering if there are any other atheists/agnostics out there in 12 step programs that could help me out. I feel really stuck and I am afraid of relapse.
if your group says you need a god, get another group. Unless that god is a Group Of Drunks helping you that is.
If you had someone say "here, drink this, and you will screw up and smash everything you own. Your own kids will hate you and you will wind up dead, insane, or imprisoned."
I don't have any addictions, but my higher power has always been the chaos of the universe. From what I understand about 12-step programs, you just need a higher power, doesn't necessarily need to be a god. Or am I wrong on that?
Nope. My daughter is in recovery. She refers to her "HP" on Facebook from time to time, but she doesn't believe in a god as far as I know. It's a concept that there is something bigger than you, something to focus on, but as my late best friend, who eventually lost her battle with alcohol said, "the refrigerator can be your higher power if that's what you choose".
No you arent stuck on step 11.
You lied in step 3.
Step 3: [i][“Made a decision to turn our will and our lives over to the care of God as we understood Him.” In step three of AA you are making a decision: it's that simple./I]
How do you know they lied in step 3? I checked that person's history and 3 years after this post they were still clean. That's 8 years total. They became addicted to pain pills trying to deal with chronic pain. Some pretty bad chronic pain that was still an issue after getting clean. Somehow they've managed.
She's currently in Hong Kong and texted me that she attended an "AA-type" meeting over there. Since that's not a particularly religious place, I wonder if they leave the God/HP part out. I'll ask her when she gets back.
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