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Old 06-18-2018, 10:07 AM
 
Location: USA
4,747 posts, read 2,347,738 times
Reputation: 1293

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eggbeater Bliss View Post
I find myself in the untenable position of being an agnostic in a 12 step program. I’ve been clean for almost five years. The trouble is I don’t actually believe that some magic Santa Claus in the sky is keeping me clean. I believe that I’m staying clean through the power of one addict helping another. I know I can’t stay clean by myself, I've tried. For the most part 12 step programs give a person the freedom to choose their own “Higher Power,” but when I started getting into the steps I’ve found that the wording really throws me off.

For example, I've been stuck on Step 11 for over a year: “Sought through prayer and meditation to improve our conscious contact with God as we understood him.” I prayed for the first 3 years I was in recovery because it is suggested but it felt artificial the entire time and I never got any benefit from it. So I stopped.

I want to stay clean. I don’t want to relapse or run on self-will like I was but I can’t honestly pray or meditate. They say meditation is listening for God’s answer –well, all I hear when I try to meditate is the sound of my own scrambled thoughts. And frankly, if I heard God’s voice I would check myself into the nearest psychiatric ward anyway.

I’m wondering if there are any other atheists/agnostics out there in 12 step programs that could help me out. I feel really stuck and I am afraid of relapse.

If you stay clean its because you have realized that you were in the process of destroying your life. Others in your position can offer support. But crutches like religion only offer limited help. Because ultimately the decision to stay clean is yours and yours alone. If you fall again it's because you were and weak the world will simply go on without you.

So don't be weak. It's all in YOUR hands.
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Old 06-22-2018, 06:59 PM
 
Location: Northeastern US
19,973 posts, read 13,459,195 times
Reputation: 9918
Quote:
Originally Posted by JrzDefector View Post
I don't have any addictions, but my higher power has always been the chaos of the universe. From what I understand about 12-step programs, you just need a higher power, doesn't necessarily need to be a god. Or am I wrong on that?
It depends a great deal on the person running a particular meeting. Some are more rigid than others. Some are devoted to a particular religious view, others are inclusive. If a particular meeting runner is too strident in this regard, try other ones until you find one that doesn't have a religious broom up their ass.

Of course in some communities there may not be much choice, OR much variety, so this can be easier said than done.

I have an unbelieving family member who went through 12-step and their "higher power" was "other people". This seems consistent with EggBeater's understanding that he needs other people to support him and help him. This should be a sufficient understanding of "higher power" that many meeting sponsors can support and certainly that most should be able to tolerate.

Of course it's better if you're lucky enough to find a Smart program or some other non 12-step thing, but that's not always possible, or you may be going to 12 step to fulfill a court order or something.
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Old 06-23-2018, 11:16 PM
 
Location: Edmonds, WA
8,975 posts, read 10,204,425 times
Reputation: 14247
If you think meditation needs to be a religious exercise, you don’t understand what meditation is. I’m an atheist and I meditate regularly. If you are “hearing your own thoughts” that’s completely normal. The idea is that eventually your thoughts clear and you are able to simply exist in the present moment. I find it extremely beneficial, and for me it has nothing to do with religion. It sounds like the OP was not willing to wait until the head chatter in his mind subsided.

I realize this thread is 4 years old and OP is long gone, but just wanted to add my 2 pence for the record for anyone else struggling with the same dilemma.
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Old 06-24-2018, 07:41 AM
 
Location: minnesota
15,853 posts, read 6,313,875 times
Reputation: 5056
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluefox View Post
If you think meditation needs to be a religious exercise, you don’t understand what meditation is. I’m an atheist and I meditate regularly. If you are “hearing your own thoughts” that’s completely normal. The idea is that eventually your thoughts clear and you are able to simply exist in the present moment. I find it extremely beneficial, and for me it has nothing to do with religion. It sounds like the OP was not willing to wait until the head chatter in his mind subsided.

I realize this thread is 4 years old and OP is long gone, but just wanted to add my 2 pence for the record for anyone else struggling with the same dilemma.
Do you have a recommended video?
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Old 06-24-2018, 08:27 AM
 
Location: Ontario, Canada
31,373 posts, read 20,174,182 times
Reputation: 14070
Quote:
Originally Posted by L8Gr8Apost8 View Post
Do you have a recommended video?

I'd be interested in a good, getting-started-on-meditation video, article or book too.
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Old 06-24-2018, 10:42 AM
 
Location: Edmonds, WA
8,975 posts, read 10,204,425 times
Reputation: 14247
Quote:
Originally Posted by L8Gr8Apost8 View Post
Do you have a recommended video?
This is a good general mindfulness meditation.


https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=-2zdUXve6fQ

I also really like this guy:


https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=B5oIEKjMdmA

There are also countless other guided meditations that focus on any number of specific topics.
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Old 06-24-2018, 10:51 AM
 
Location: planet earth
8,620 posts, read 5,647,828 times
Reputation: 19645
Check out "Abraham Hicks + Alcohol" and "Abraham Hicks + 12 Step" on YouTube - they have a lot of interesting stuff to say that might help you.
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Old 06-24-2018, 10:54 AM
 
Location: Edmonds, WA
8,975 posts, read 10,204,425 times
Reputation: 14247
Quote:
Originally Posted by TroutDude View Post
I'd be interested in a good, getting-started-on-meditation video, article or book too.
Check out this article:

https://theconsciouslife.com/how-to-...-beginners.htm

And this video:


https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=JAJ87Dwmx2E
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