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Then we agree, more or less. There really is no other answer.
I suspect it's less rather than more. I doubt very much that you would agree that there is 'no other answer' than matter or stuff being our "Creator" through unplanned natural physical processes. If however, you do so agree, then we really are in agreement.
Everything you listed is either a creator or "I don't know". Based on observation, a creator is logical.
Well you are clearly unwilling to consider what you're reading at face value. Several of them are ways our universe could have come into being without a creator. A creator assumes that the universe itself isn't eternal, AND that time itself has always functioned as presently known and understood. Even those things assume a single universe, which may well not be the case.
Your argument is not logical because it is a combination of an argument from incredulity and god of the gaps ... probably undergirded by an implicit argument from authority. It is also illogical in that it rejects any information or argument that doesn't support your belief -- which renders it, charitably put, less than fact-based or free of confirmation bias.
I suspect it's less rather than more. I doubt very much that you would agree that there is 'no other answer' than matter or stuff being our "Creator" through unplanned natural physical processes. If however, you do so agree, then we really are in agreement.
Well you are clearly unwilling to consider what you're reading at face value. Several of them are ways our universe could have come into being without a creator. A creator assumes that the universe itself isn't eternal, AND that time itself has always functioned as presently known and understood. Even those things assume a single universe, which may well not be the case.
Your argument is not logical because it is a combination of an argument from incredulity and god of the gaps ... probably undergirded by an implicit argument from authority. It is also illogical in that it rejects any information or argument that doesn't support your belief -- which renders it, charitably put, less than fact-based or free of confirmation bias.
As I just said ... a creator presupposes a number of things we don't know to be true. It presupposes a linear timeline that has always proceeded in the same direction from a finite past to a presumably infinite future. It presupposes that the attribute of eternality belongs to the creator rather than to creation itself. It presupposes we are only dealing with one universe. There is a distinct nonzero possibility that NONE of these things are true.
A creator also presupposes that the material universe is real rather than entirely perceived. Although I see no pragmatic reason to believe in solipsism, I see no way to disprove it either.
A divine creator also presupposes that it is the most proximate creator. I described the possibility that we are created by non-divine agent(s). That would just be kicking the can down the road but I think it would be just as discomfiting to your theology as no creator at all.
The bottom line here is that NEITHER of us can claim a knowledge position about how the universe came to be, or how life came to be. You respond to that by deciding what you want to be true and calling it logical. I respond to that by admitting I don't know, although I in general terms believe that your particular explanation is among the least likely to be true based on what we DO know about the universe at this time and its known history.
As I just said ... a creator presupposes a number of things we don't know to be true. It presupposes a linear timeline that has always proceeded in the same direction from a finite past to a presumably infinite future. It presupposes that the attribute of eternality belongs to the creator rather than to creation itself. It presupposes we are only dealing with one universe. There is a distinct nonzero possibility that NONE of these things are true.
A creator also presupposes that the material universe is real rather than entirely perceived. Although I see no pragmatic reason to believe in solipsism, I see no way to disprove it either.
A divine creator also presupposes that it is the most proximate creator. I described the possibility that we are created by non-divine agent(s). That would just be kicking the can down the road but I think it would be just as discomfiting to your theology as no creator at all.
The bottom line here is that NEITHER of us can claim a knowledge position about how the universe came to be, or how life came to be. You respond to that by deciding what you want to be true and calling it logical. I respond to that by admitting I don't know, although I in general terms believe that your particular explanation is among the least likely to be true based on what we DO know about the universe at this time and its known history.
So, "we don't know" is the best answer you can give. Left with that, a creator makes the most sense.
So, "we don't know" is the best answer you can give. Left with that, a creator makes the most sense.
It seems to me that the answers we have historically come up with for the "we don't knows" have been flat out wrong once we do know. Why would you assume this one would hold up once we do have more information? "we don't know yet" not "we have to have a conclusive answer right now..pick one...pick one..."
I believe that the accounts in Bible, for example, are entirely mythology that is overlaid with some circumstantial history.
The Bible is one of mankind's numerous attempts to explain truth and reality in a world where scientific knowledge was largely absent. It was probably the best thing we had going for many centuries.
Answer - Silly old men likely on drugs, hallucinating, and hearing voices way before any science advancement.
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