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I think that really depends on your claim, which is why several people have asked you for specifics.
Let’s note that the vast majority of discussions here focus on a narrow set of topics. Looking at recent ones, people have asked the forum if people will eventually favor the Christian god, if we feel guilty about not being Christian, and if we respect god. Pick up the clue phone, of course these are all going to get similar answers. We are atheists, we don’t believe in any of that stuff. That is the entire point of being an atheist. If we revered, respected, or feared god we would be theists of some sort. It’s a bit like asking Christians if they like the idea of Jesus Christ as savior. How man6 are going to say no?
There is a second grouping of threads, asking what religion we were as children and what our experiences were coming out or living as atheists. Again, as a minority belief it isn’t too shocking that there are similarities.
If you really want to see some differences in opinions, you are going. to have to ask something that isn’t related to the core definition of atheist. I bet if you were to ask our thoughts on socialized medicine, minimum wage, immigration, tax reform, beards, cars, or sports cars you would rapidly find huge differences.
You're right. I only look at a few threads here that I'm interested in. And what I've seen has led me to the conclusion that a group of people with weird fringe beliefs are going to support anyone who is a part of their "Truth" believers group of atheists.
You're right. I only look at a few threads here that I'm interested in. And what I've seen has led me to the conclusion that a group of people with weird fringe beliefs are going to support anyone who is a part of their "Truth" believers group of atheists.
Again, an assertion without any evidence.
Please pick an example and tell me why you think atheists should have varying opinions on your cited example.
I'm sorry if you don't like the fact that atheists have earned dominance here by having the best arguments. I'm sorry that you feel that long periods of arguing things out and coming to the conclusions that stand up best represent some kind of orthodoxy, not to say conspiracy to support other atheists no matter what.
The way it looks to us is rather that you are projecting onto us what you as a theist are doing - supporting other theists, even if you actually don't agree with them. Because it evidently sits better with you to attack atheists than to consider the many differing beliefs held by various kinds of theists.
In fact in addition to implying that we are responsible for finding your evidence for you, you seem to be blaming us for your bias against us.
It isn't as though we implacably refuse to accept anything you say even if it's valid. Didn't we accept that atrocities in history were more the fault of the way humans were than religion? But so far as I can remember you didn't accept the equally valid point that this meant that religion didn't make society any better, and in fact gave us things to fight about that were pointless.
But instead of accepting the points, you seemed to look around for something else to slam atheists with - like all having come to some common views, which is apparently to our discredit.
You are the one who ought to do some rethinking, but I wonder whether that is even possible for you, such is the bias you appear to have for those who not only don't believe in a god, but are working to have a world where people are not treated as second -class citizens because they don't. Aside from a world where people are not treated as second -class citizens because they are not God -believers in the right way.
I don't remember saying anything to imply that I'm anti-atheist. All I've been doing lately is try to show that the belief or nonbelief that people hold doesn't really affect their actions in the world. I think of it as more of a "support group" when they are on their own time. But when they are doing their everyday business matters that's entirely different. And there is not much difference between people in my opinion.
We have got to get you on the mailing list. We also have luggage tags and window decals. It’s the best!
We will know we have arrived when we have been fully absorbed by the cultural clutter. That is probably still a far into the future dynamic, I don't see ballparks having "Atheists Night" anytime soon.
Oh come mow. Just a couple of pages back you were talking about an 'ignorant' remark which was correct. You just didn't like it because it was critical of religion. You slammed us for sticking together as though that showed some biased conspiracy rather than hving come to valid conclusions.
You have said that you don't like the way things feel here. But that's only because you are so biased against us that you can't work with us. If you did, you'd probably be amazed at how tolerant we can be of other people's beliefs and views - so long as we are all working for a world were all of them are able to be held (or not), not just one.
I have to remind you of a couple of efforts to try to excuse religion of not being the good that would justify it, even if it was not true (which atheists of course think is the case)
Husker, a couple of pages back: In your eagerness to excuse Christianity from it complicity in slavery, you're extolling the supposed virtues of slavery. Which I also noted as your excusing the Bible's doctrinal cosiness with slavery. Instead of seeing the validity of the points (scotching this idea that religion - or rather Christianity - is good for the world, even if not true), you imply that we are in the wrong for taking a common view on what is clearly the case.
Don't you see where the problem is? It's your (apparently emotional) bias against atheism, not what we think or how we think. Nor indeed what "New atheism" is trying to do.
Last edited by TRANSPONDER; 10-03-2018 at 10:05 PM..
You're right. I only look at a few threads here that I'm interested in. And what I've seen has led me to the conclusion that a group of people with weird fringe beliefs are going to support anyone who is a part of their "Truth" believers group of atheists.
So, a group of people on a forum which is devoted to those who do not believe in a god, appear to be supporting one another when a god believer makes arguments for belief?
This took you by surprise? What is your notion of a better arrangement? We divide ourselves into two teams, one of which continues to argue the atheist position, and another which cheers on and supports the visiting theists?
My point is that it's the general feeling of this place. All the atheists seem to support each other because of their common belief system. If you don't see it now then nothing I could show you would convince you anyway. You would have some kind of argument, anyway, telling me that I was wrong. And so I don't like going around and around in the same circles.
First, if you're so uncomfortable here, why stay? I was on one forum about atheism, and I didn't like it. So I left.
Second, you constantly go around in the same circles. You're a frequent poster, and the posts always have a lot in common.
So, a group of people on a forum which is devoted to those who do not believe in a god, appear to be supporting one another when a god believer makes arguments for belief?
This took you by surprise? What is your notion of a better arrangement? We divide ourselves into two teams, one of which continues to argue the atheist position, and another which cheers on and supports the visiting theists?
I forgot we were in A/A. These days, I see no difference between Atheism/Agnosticism and religion and Secularism. Which it has pretty much become. We probably don't need the ghetto walls of A/A, these days. A ban on Proselytisation probably isn't needed anymore. A simple "Look, chum, convince us that your Holy Book is correct and true, and maybe then posting wads of scripture will not be a waste of your effort" would probably suffice. Rather, it's Christianity forum has had to put up "Atheists -Keep out" signs.
First, if you're so uncomfortable here, why stay? I was on one forum about atheism, and I didn't like it. So I left.
Second, you constantly go around in the same circles. You're a frequent poster, and the posts always have a lot in common.
I would much rather he forget the prejudice and look for common ground, and agree to differ on things that don't really matter. Just as we would on whether a god made the universe or life (just so the actually of the evolutionary process is accepted - see the really pointless wrangle with Go4No ). But just as some keep battling atheists about these academic matters, we get battles about the supposed value of religion to society and indignation when we show there really isn't any, when what the antipathy is based on is the really unimportant fact that they have a god -belief and we don't.
P.s I'll say this though- we are getting some much more lively and challenging wrangles on A/A than R/S. "Are we insulting God with navel piercing?" I've put myself in God's eternal bad books with my beef curry with yoghourt and I'm not even repentant!
No I much prefer a good ol' " Why don't you atheists go and bugger yourselves because the Bible says we should love our enemies." After all, if theism didn't exist, neither would atheism.
Goddam.
Let me try something.
Recent posts seem the kind to screw down the lid on the religious coffin.
Hmmm
I guess "screw" is taken by spellcheck in context. Next thing it'll be annexing small east European states.
Last edited by TRANSPONDER; 10-03-2018 at 10:48 PM..
No, but God will. The religious God (of whatever stripe) is born of ignorant primitive and barbaric beliefs which will evaporate under their own weight as science continues to progress. But the one and only True God will eventually have to be accepted as science fails to explain God away.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grandstander
Science isn't in the god explaining business. You choose to believe that it is because you see no problems with attempting to blend the natural and the supernatural. Science does not agree with that, it limits itself to observable, testable phenomena. Those things it is unable to explain, it classifies as "yet to be explained", it doesn't default to supernatural explanations, so it will never be reaching the point you postulate above where it concedes a failure to explain the supernatural.
Science is not the search for god. Believers might argue that science searches for god's handiwork and laws, but that still isn't the search for the god itself, particularly the question of its existence.
Since science is in the Reality explaining business, they are automatically in the God explaining business. As they get deeper and deeper into the source of our reality and its functioning, they will inevitably encounter the fact that our science is simply not up to the task of explaining it all. There is no way to incorporate subjective experience into the sterile mathematics of physics.
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I forgot we were in A/A. These days, I see no difference between Atheism/Agnosticism and religion and Secularism. Which it has pretty much become. We probably don't need the ghetto walls of A/A, these days. A ban on Proselytisation probably isn't needed anymore. A simple "Look, chum, convince us that your Holy Book is correct and true, and maybe then posting wads of scripture will not be a waste of your effort" would probably suffice. Rather, it's Christianity forum has had to put up "Atheists -Keep out" signs.
