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A changed life isn't proof that either God or a god exists. Plenty of people change their lives without changing their religious views at all.
Yes, happens every day! Not the same by a long shot.
The changed lives for the better in the unbelievers cannot bring forth the fruits of the Holy Spirit.
One of the fruits is Faith, that is faith in Christ which is non-existent in the nonbeliever. That Faith will bring forth fruit not possible by the unbeliever.
But we are speaking of a Bible that you detest and have absolutely no respect for.
So I guess we go back to the drawing board, faith vs logic.
The Bible you don't believe but they do is full of public prayer.
Why can't you respect their beliefs but yet, you expect them to respect yours.
In the golden rule realm many of you speak of, is this not reasonable?
Jesus commanded believers to not pray in public, as the hypocrites do. It seems to me that Christians who are really Christians would want to do as Jesus commanded.
Yes, happens every day! Not the same by a long shot.
The changed lives for the better in the unbelievers cannot bring forth the fruits of the Holy Spirit.
One of the fruits is Faith, that is faith in Christ which is non-existent in the nonbeliever. That Faith will bring forth fruit not possible by the unbeliever.
But we are speaking of a Bible that you detest and have absolutely no respect for.
So I guess we go back to the drawing board, faith vs logic.
You are correct in this, I do not see faith as a virtue. Quite the contrary.
How do you personally decide which supernatural claims to accept and which to reject? It's largely a function of where you were raised. Had you been born and raised in China, the supernatural claims which you accept on faith would likely be quite different.
trans you know precisely what I am talking about. I am only here to talk about beliefs that have merit and beliefs that don't. In this type of forum. Properly apply the scientific method and you can form any rational belief you want. that is it. You see that as an assault on atheism. I see it ending in atheism.
I see what what ice-t is saying as a result of my way of thinking going to far. I see what he is saying as a lesson on what limits I need to place on my way of thinking.
I believe you have labelled every atheists who doesn't accept your extremely vague something more claim as a fundamentalist atheists and being anti religion. After using a spray gun to paint everyone with a label you think is derogatory, you accusations no longer have any meaning.
Perhaps I am wrong in my opinion above. I used to think your agenda wss to bring an end to most threads. Perhaps you should use your own rational thinking and logic before spraying labels onto everyone?
The Bible you don't believe but they do is full of public prayer.
Your not familiar with your bible, are you? Especially Matthew 6, which admonishes those that pray in public
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Why can't you respect their beliefs but yet, you expect them to respect yours.
Beliefs have no rights, only humans do. Plus, it is illegal to have public prayer if it is a government entity holding the assembly, without giving equal rights to all religions and those who have none. Which means Satanists have the right also, and so do Muslims and atheists to make invocations. It's all or none.
You are correct in this, I do not see faith as a virtue. Quite the contrary.
How do you personally decide which supernatural claims to accept and which to reject? It's largely a function of where you were raised. Had you been born and raised in China, the supernatural claims which you accept on faith would likely be quite different.
I have learned to read the scripture spiritually minded using common sense and the rules of hermeneutics.
The rest I ask of God. Despite all that He can do for us, we being human and still at times leaning toward our own understanding and not always His, we fall short of perfect knowledge.
I have learned to read the scripture spiritually minded using common sense and the rules of hermeneutics.
The rest I ask of God. Despite all that He can do for us, we being human and still at times leaning toward our own understanding and not always His, we fall short of perfect knowledge.
And by "scripture", you mean The Bible. What of the other writings that many regard as scripture? Why do you not accept those on faith as well?
Don't you just love the Ploy of suggesting that there is some Problem with anyone who will not just accept that God knows better than we do and we should all stop asking questions (except Within the Faith -box where they are cues for faith -bolstering preaching, not Real questions).
I am reminded again of the Theramin -trees video on losing Faith where he described the faith -bolstering 'discussion' meetings where the game is to find more faith in bouncing faith -affirming remarks one off the other and you cannot 'drop the ball' or pass it back. You have to build the faith. It is quite entertaining to watch the believers who use this method finding that non -believers aren't going to play that game.
Several of our christian posters enjoy painting us as extremists. I have asked them for some specific examples of extreme actions any of us have taken, and all they ever come up with is words. They are petrified of our words. Their faith is so weak they are afraid for others to speak their minds.
I'm quite sure some will rush to respond to this post and say how extreme we are, and so in advance I'll say to them: show me one extreme ACTION that any of us who post here have committed.
Scholars have been arguing this from the time it was written. You will not find the answer comparing the Greek words.
If you want to know what a Greek speaker is saying, you need to compare the Greek words.
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Originally Posted by Charlie24
You will find the answer in the scripture by comparing other verses like,
Matthew 25:46
And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.
Everlasting destruction = everlasting punishment, they are everlasting and not death as in annihilation.
Matthew is not an annihilationist. He also did not write 2 Thessalonians.
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Originally Posted by Charlie24
Not going to argue this with you, it's senseless and if the great scholars of the world can't come to agreement we certainly can't.
Great scholars with theological biases. To me, it is sausage, so I say it has it is written.
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To me, it is sausage, so I say it has it is written.