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None of this has anything to do with my question. Is there a reason you are uncomfortable answering?
I also noticed Charlie avoided answering the request for proof or evidence to support his claims concerning God. What struck me was his deflection by swinging it to "you can't prove God does not exist". I thought that to be rather strange as he comes across as being very convinced that God exists and not only that but in what God does, thinks and wants.
So Charlie, why are you uncomfortable answering? Why can't you tell us what convinces you the bible is true and that God does exist? Why did you feel a need to make the statement that atheists cannot prove God does not exist? In this thread, no one has claimed that God does not exist. In general, atheists are very careful not to make that claim even when we are convinced of it because we know we cannot prove it. We are too rational to make that kind of folly (most of the time).
Now Charlie, you made many assertions in the course of this thread. That's fine, you are free to do so but please back some of those assertions up with reasons and evidence. For example, you have repeatedly stated that God will send us all to hell for not believing in Jesus. Shall we start with establishing that hell exists in the first place? I've done some google searches for hell in the bible and came up blank. Hell does not seem to be a biblical concept. If I'm missing something then please feel free to enlighten me.
listen trans, you know and I know you are here to stop religion in the united states. You said it to me and you have said as much. so just be honest about it when its pointed out.
I don't disagree totally with it but activism should be in another forum or subsection. It should not be deciding sliding scales of plausibility and relevance of science based god claims in just this forum. Thats all.
the no-god of-gaps is closing equally as fast. because its something, not nothing. Denying everything is just falling away piece by piece.
That's all pretty wrong. While religious should eventually go everywhere, once people know what a con it is, the idea is not to stop it, but to counter the false claims of religion that are imposed on society continually and (activism) to push back against the infiltration of religious influence in law, education and politics. But you prefer to say what you Think I said. It's a strawman and does you no credit.
I already said that activism only gets mentioned because anti -atheists bring it up. You bring it up all the time. Pot -kettle, Arach.
Nothing has changed on the no -God front. Biblegod is losing ground, a sorta -god is having its' gaps closed and the Woo -stuff (which is the only point you may have here) is as likely to to be matter doing stuff as a god. You are the one in denial.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD
You really don't see the relevance of undercutting his pretended objectivity by revealing his actual motives????
I'm sure that we can all see the tactic of foisting false accusations about my motives on me when there is no better argument they have about why the god -claim (never mind Biblegod) does not stanc up to question.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mensaguy
Since Transponder lives in Wales, he probably has less influence than I do toward changing the US Constitution, and my influence is practically nil. Why do you keep bringing that up?
Indeed. But the Uke atheists do or did have a considerable input into the Nones and New atheism in the US, which is really the only place where it is a Problem.
Last edited by TRANSPONDER; 01-02-2021 at 01:48 AM..
To undercut his pretense that he is just objectively presenting the truth about our Reality based on existing evidence. He is NOT! He and his atheist pals actually believe they have the unadulterated, unvarnished and ONLY Truth abut our Reality until proven otherwise, which is as preposterous as the fundamentalists' belief in the infallibility of their divine revelations recorded by men.
Rubbish. The burden of proof being on the (god) claimant is logical. You have consistently refused to recognise or accept this and it has discredited you, your arguments and either your comprehension or integrity, though as I constantly belatedly realise, the Believers see no wrong in lying for Faith -claims which they 'know' are True on Faith.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mensaguy
What in the world does that have to do with Arach's claim that Trans is trying to eliminate religion in America?
Ah hah. Yes, Mystic cannot help turning everything into peddling his own whacky woo claims, even if it has nothing to do with it.
None of this has anything to do with my question. Is there a reason you are uncomfortable answering?
Don't you just love the Ploy of suggesting that there is some Problem with anyone who will not just accept that God knows better than we do and we should all stop asking questions (except Within the Faith -box where they are cues for faith -bolstering preaching, not Real questions).
I am reminded again of the Theramin -trees video on losing Faith where he described the faith -bolstering 'discussion' meetings where the game is to find more faith in bouncing faith -affirming remarks one off the other and you cannot 'drop the ball' or pass it back. You have to build the faith. It is quite entertaining to watch the believers who use this method finding that non -believers aren't going to play that game.
I also noticed Charlie avoided answering the request for proof or evidence to support his claims concerning God. What struck me was his deflection by swinging it to "you can't prove God does not exist". I thought that to be rather strange as he comes across as being very convinced that God exists and not only that but in what God does, thinks and wants.
So Charlie, why are you uncomfortable answering? Why can't you tell us what convinces you the bible is true and that God does exist? Why did you feel a need to make the statement that atheists cannot prove God does not exist? In this thread, no one has claimed that God does not exist. In general, atheists are very careful not to make that claim even when we are convinced of it because we know we cannot prove it. We are too rational to make that kind of folly (most of the time).
Now Charlie, you made many assertions in the course of this thread. That's fine, you are free to do so but please back some of those assertions up with reasons and evidence. For example, you have repeatedly stated that God will send us all to hell for not believing in Jesus. Shall we start with establishing that hell exists in the first place? I've done some google searches for hell in the bible and came up blank. Hell does not seem to be a biblical concept. If I'm missing something then please feel free to enlighten me.
Oh yes. This reversal of burden of proof is a basic ploy in Theist apologetics. But it is not just a tactic, it is based on GodFaith. This truly skews their thinking as they assume that God is real until disproven, which isn't the logic at all, but it is absolutely the basic and clue to all their arguments, reasoning and misrepresentations of atheism (e.g atheists believe in God but hate him; atheists must be miserable, suicidal, nihilists because God is the only thing that gives life meaning.).
It does of course run up against which god?', but those who address this point at all simply say its all the same god. Very well, but which one, or is it an agnostic - god of all religions or none? I have never known ANY god -believer respond to that.
P.s We have moved off the topic which is (essentially) Faith is advantageous whether it's true or not. But I guess that's done with the response 'hard truths are better than comfortable lies'. This solid food is perhaps not for those who can only survive on the sop -milk of godfaith, but there are some - more than we think - who are able to wean off the religious con. And i assert that wanting to know the truth is more what makes us human, more than just believing what we are told.
Last edited by TRANSPONDER; 01-02-2021 at 02:27 AM..
Are going to play "what's the motive"? I actually see Trans as one of the few people on this board willing to discuss belief using nothing but logic.
You got it goin on my man, I like how it's goin down
You got the fly cars, the girls, the jewels
Look at that ring right there
I know it's real, it's gotta be real
Man, you the flyest atheist I seen in my life!
Yo man, I just wanna roll with you man
How can I be down?
I will take the Ice T lyrics as what they are without prejudice (does he really say 'flying atheist?'Wouldn't 'The flying atheist' be a great title for my online site doing the religion debate and air travel reviews? )
And if they have proof, I will consider their claim.
It is beyond belief that your consideration of their claim is important. To whom? Maybe to yourself. And their belief is their belief and that somehow guides their life, how they deal with adversity, or sadness. Why do they need to prove anything to you?
Why do people who have beliefs other than your own want to talk about it in this forum ? may be to share how those beliefs help them.
Do you have beliefs, not proof, beliefs that guide the way you live and helps you deal with those situations of sadness and despair which everyone of us go through if we have lived any length of time?
I also noticed Charlie avoided answering the request for proof or evidence to support his claims concerning God. What struck me was his deflection by swinging it to "you can't prove God does not exist". I thought that to be rather strange as he comes across as being very convinced that God exists and not only that but in what God does, thinks and wants.
So Charlie, why are you uncomfortable answering? Why can't you tell us what convinces you the bible is true and that God does exist? Why did you feel a need to make the statement that atheists cannot prove God does not exist? In this thread, no one has claimed that God does not exist. In general, atheists are very careful not to make that claim even when we are convinced of it because we know we cannot prove it. We are too rational to make that kind of folly (most of the time).
Now Charlie, you made many assertions in the course of this thread. That's fine, you are free to do so but please back some of those assertions up with reasons and evidence. For example, you have repeatedly stated that God will send us all to hell for not believing in Jesus. Shall we start with establishing that hell exists in the first place? I've done some google searches for hell in the bible and came up blank. Hell does not seem to be a biblical concept. If I'm missing something then please feel free to enlighten me.
I'm not shy on answering anything my friend, ask and I will respond.
Maybe you didn't see the post I'm referring to when I said the proof of God for the world to see is a completely and totally changed life apparent to all. As the scripture said, you will know them by their fruits, and only a new man in Christ can bring forth those fruits.
Maybe some of you have never encountered a real born again Christian to have witnessed what I speak of.
I will take the Ice T lyrics as what they are without prejudice (does he really say 'flying atheist?'Wouldn't 'The flying atheist' be a great title for my online site doing the religion debate and air travel reviews? )
trans you know precisely what I am talking about. I am only here to talk about beliefs that have merit and beliefs that don't. In this type of forum. Properly apply the scientific method and you can form any rational belief you want. that is it. You see that as an assault on atheism. I see it ending in atheism.
I see what what ice-t is saying as a result of my way of thinking going to far. I see what he is saying as a lesson on what limits I need to place on my way of thinking.
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I'm sure that we can all see the tactic of foisting false accusations about my motives on me when there is no better argument they have about why the god -claim (never mind Biblegod) does not stanc up to question.
)
