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I know many state atheism is a simple concept. Is it? The fact is a whole forum is devoted to its discussion, how simple can it be? It is not simple. A simple concept is birds have feathers. There is nothing more to discuss, that distinguishes birds as a species.
Atheism is fraught with concepts, not a simple single one. It is “against”. That is a tough stand.
There are many contradictory religions (with sub sects of those religions) with complex theological and philosophical arguments. Atheism is (usually) the simple concept, we do not believe you. Refuting the complex arguments of the religious does not make atheism itself complex.
Only when one argues for atheism instead of against religion does it become complex, but most atheists do not go that far, because belief in Saint Peter resurrecting a cooked fish (and other arguments) is usually enough. That is why you as a Hindu (presumably) reject the literal miraculous stories of other religions.
Primal..can I ask you a question? If you really believe that it’s up to ppl what they want to believe, why be an antitheist…at all? Why do you fight so hard against religion or other opinions? You & a couple of regulars never stop. All of you sound like the same person after awhile.
I grew up without religion & I’m an atheist but it’s not all of who I am, ofc. I’m married to an atheist too…CorpCowboy, but I admire his intelligence, compassion and how he stands up for other ppl. He’s a good man. All you intensely seem to care about is your atheism. You have no understanding how your posts come across.
IMO, it takes a lot of pent up anger to do what you do every day. It’s not healthy.
1) The religious make bad arguments, and it is natural to refute bad arguments of all kinds. Religion should not be immune.
2) Creationism, the link between religion and the far right, stoning people to death on religious grounds, forcing women to wear the Hijab, usw. But for some, apparently fighting against dangerous religious fundamentalism is anti-theism.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TashaPosh
Noooo. Atheism just means we don’t believe in god.
Labeling something as indoctrination prejudices the perception right form the start. All knowledge is obtained from the outside. We are taught about gravity in primary school, something that seems magical. We are tested on the laws of gravity, graded by right or wrong answer, it is essentially imprinted in our mind. This is new knowledge that did not exist before, a new way of thinking. This is indoctrination.
Yes. You mentioned this earlier in the post below.
Quote:
Originally Posted by cb2008
what connotation words carry is to a large extent depends on the receiver. perhaps the connotation is even among Christians. It is not received the same way with all. speaking for myself if someone declares himself as atheist, happens, it raises neither positive nor negative connotation for me. not even curiosity. it is possible the emotional response is all in the atheists own mind.
don’t you think atheism is as much indoctrination as religion is?
Quote:
Originally Posted by cb2008
We have options. There is right, wrong, and undeterminable. Observation may yield different results depending on the observer and his conditioning, and yes, his indoctrination, his knowledge or lack of it. One can observe the decay and death of the body and conclude there is something else about us than the identification with the body, because I have Awareness that this body ages and is not the same it was in my youth. We may conclude this awareness is our true identity, not the body that dies.
Yes. That is preference. By the way, thank you for adding undeterminable to the list of options.
I know many state atheism is a simple concept. Is it? The fact is a whole forum is devoted to its discussion, how simple can it be? It is not simple. A simple concept is birds have feathers. There is nothing more to discuss, that distinguishes birds as a species.
Atheism is fraught with concepts, not a simple single one. It is “against”. That is a tough stand.
"I know many state atheism is a simple concept. Is it?" Apparently it is. So far, every atheist that has responded to your question says it is.
"The fact is a whole forum is devoted to its discussion, how simple can it be?" The fact is that the owner of the forum decided he wanted to make a sub-forum. He must have thought there was enough interest to make it worthwhile. He also established the criteria for this forum. (He did that for several other forums too.)
"It is not simple. A simple concept is birds have feathers. There is nothing more to discuss, that distinguishes birds as a species." What's not simple about it? It's a statement of belief about one specific issue: Non-Belief in deities.
"Atheism is fraught with concepts, not a simple single one." You made the claim. Please list these concepts beyond non-belief in deities that "Atheism is fraught with."
"It is “against”. That is a tough stand." What makes that a tough stand? Being against a specific thing seems to be a position that is easy to comprehend. Saying "I'm against racism" is not a tough stand. Saying "I'm against misogyny" is not a tough stand. What makes atheism a tough stand?
Why is it that people can never refrain from trying to make a forum in their own image.
I'm really tired of people who think people should only talk about this - or talk about that - and if they don't talk about what I'm interest in, then it's just "yawn" or "it's so boring."
Why is that?
I came within a hair's width from quitting this place after a decade of posting here - namely because the theists ran everyone who doesn't believe as they do off the Religion and Spirituality forum - you know, the main forum that was supposed to be for everyone regardless of what they believe - or don't believe. And now I'm seeing precisely the same thing being said here - by other atheists - who think the atheism forum should be about singing zippity doo-dah about how awesome our lives are. Which has nothing to do with atheism in the first place.
If you don't like the topics, don't post.
But in actual fact, no. I don't want to sit here and listen to how hunky dory goddamn beautiful everyone else's life is. Because SOME of us aren't as "lucky" as you are. SOME of us don't have an intelligent lawyer husband, a good job that they love, and a baby on the way.
I'm not saying that you can't talk about those things - far be it from me to be a hypocrite - but if you want to sit around comparing blessings, no doubt you can start a thread for that - and you and whomever else who wishes to participate - can! That's why there are multiple threads. Why do you have to criticize what OTHER people enjoy posting about? Why even waste the keystrokes unless you're trying to impose what you want on to everyone else?
On the other hand, some of us - like me, for instance, whose life isn't so rosy - enjoy the give and take of a good debate. It exercises the grey matter and I learn a lot from both my own research and the things others say. Talking about how awesome our lives are is just - gossip. And, as I said, it isolates those who don't have what you do. After all - your job, your marriage, your new baby - none of those things have much if anything to do with atheism. I'm sure there are even other forums here at City-Data that cater to what you want.
I'm just so tired - so very tired - of people wanting to claim that the entire forum - literally every single thread - must conform to some kind of "standard" that they want. One thing I've never done was tell someone else what they can or can't, should or shouldn't post. I might attack the hell out of the post itself, but never their right to say it. Let's stop with the rules, shall we?
If you don't like the topic, don't participate. Start your own thread. And if I don't like the topic, I won't participate. But I won't crap on the carpet, as they say, by telling you how boring and banal your conversation is. Deal? It's a shame, too, since by reading your posts, we probably agree on a lot more than we would disagree. However, ask nearly anyone here, listening to people tell everyone else what they should be posting about really grinds my gears. It's a big peeve of mine when posting on forums.
I want to address the part I bolded in your post.
Anyone is free to post in the main Religion and Spirituality forum. In fact, that IS the place to discuss differences among beliefs. As everyone can tell, by reading the Sticky post by Administrator at the top of this forum, arguing about the validity of atheism is specifically relegated to the main R&S forum. His concept has been carried forward in the rules for the other sub-forums. Just like the prohibition against proselytizing in this sub-forum, similar prohibitions exist in other sub-forums, but they do not exist in the main R&S forum.
If somebody tells you that you shouldn't be posting (in the main R&S forum) because you are an atheist, you can argue that the owner of the company said you could, and should, post there. If the post is seriously off topic, excessively argumentative, or a personal attack against you because you are an atheist, you can report the post, or contact one of the moderators.
Nobody should be made to feel that they aren't allowed to post in the main R&S forum.
I know many state atheism is a simple concept. Is it? The fact is a whole forum is devoted to its discussion, how simple can it be? It is not simple. A simple concept is birds have feathers. There is nothing more to discuss, that distinguishes birds as a species.
Atheism is fraught with concepts, not a simple single one. It is “against”. That is a tough stand.
Atheism is not against it is without. It may be confusing as some people routinely use it as a tool to antagonize others but at the end of the day, it's a personal revelation.
Anyone is free to post in the main Religion and Spirituality forum. In fact, that IS the place to discuss differences among beliefs. As everyone can tell, by reading the Sticky post by Administrator at the top of this forum, arguing about the validity of atheism is specifically relegated to the main R&S forum. His concept has been carried forward in the rules for the other sub-forums. Just like the prohibition against proselytizing in this sub-forum, similar prohibitions exist in other sub-forums, but they do not exist in the main R&S forum.
If somebody tells you that you shouldn't be posting (in the main R&S forum) because you are an atheist, you can argue that the owner of the company said you could, and should, post there. If the post is seriously off topic, excessively argumentative, or a personal attack against you because you are an atheist, you can report the post, or contact one of the moderators.
Nobody should be made to feel that they aren't allowed to post in the main R&S forum.
After I refused to engage in arguing, I've had a few the regular atheists question why I was posting in the R/R. I found it's very easy to irritate the "we atheist" crowd, so I tend to avoid most of the interesting topics and the R/R altogether at times.
Yes. You mentioned this earlier in the post below.
Yes. That is preference. By the way, thank you for adding undeterminable to the list of options.
You are welcome. Preference to identify as eternal awareness rather than the body that decays and dies? I am not sure preference adequately describes it. But this may not be the right place to discuss it any further.
It is interesting how atheists in this forum use the Christian tropes in several posts. Quoting Sam Harris and the other 3 Horsemen is the same as the many quotes from Mathew et al all over the Religion forums. Both hold the adherents in thrall. Is it that much of " free thinking" when ideas are formed and expounded based on these texts and lectures? Not that different as quoting teachings of Quran, Gita, or the Bible is for the religious.
Is it because religion gives a nice blue print to build on? The vocabulary is already available? Is that being lazy or just not very inspired? After all atheism has been around for a long time, as long as religion. In any case following the same model does not seem very free or original thinking to me.
Religion may have a nice blueprint to build on, but what is often associated with religion is believing in a God. Within that group is the belief that God is an authority. An atheist is saying no god, not that religion doesn't have a blueprint to build on in terms of forming ideas. That may feel like a roadblock for those looking for "something more" or "something less of" through religious teachings especially those who need authority to shape the world according to their preference.
Treating religious books or even books written by atheists as blueprints takes us back to square one. A claim has been made - this book is a blueprint.
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