Atlanta Transit Expansion Comes Closer as Region Prepares for Tax Referendum (Savannah: income, cost)

[waronxmas]

Originally Posted by AnsleyPark

Bob - I have to agree with you. I know plenty of people in the core counties that will not vote for an additional tax regardless of its intended use. I hope you and I are wrong and that it passes; but, I believe it is going to be an uphill battle that local leaders should not, for even a moment, take for granted.

I have the same fear too, but if this is made into an issue of building for the future of all Georgians then I think it will have a chance. It will take something this State does poorly unfortunately:

-Rural, Suburban and Urban leaders all coming together in unison to urge their constituents to pass the bill.

-Democratic and Republican office holders coming together to do the same thing.

-A clearly defined, easy to consume, version of the plan along with the benefits it will provide to bring to voters.

It's a pipe dream, but sometimes I am an optimist.

[Adric]

It is possible that a massive expansion of mass transit in the Atlanta metro might be just the thing to get us out of this housing rut. The tax might pay for itself through increased property values with proximity to mass transit.

A good link:

How Does Mass Transit Affect Property Values? | Rain City Guide

[gtcorndog]

Originally Posted by waronxmas

Well that's not a fair way to look at it.

The Amtrak station currently at Brookwood only serves one route (The Crescent) that has exactly four stops a day on a non-high speed line. The two stops in the morning eventually end up in New Orleans 12 hours later, and the two stops in the evening eventually end up in DC 14 hours later and in NYC 18 hours after departing Atlanta.

Is there are question as to why there are only 310 boardings a day? Especially considering how much more time efficient flying is?

The new station would not be built to maintain the status quo. It is being put in place with hopes (HOPE IS NOT A COURSE OF ACTION AND $39 MILLION IS A LOT TO SPEND "HOPING" THAT SOMETHING OF USE MIGHT ONE DAY COME TO A BUILDING THAT IS REPLACING ONE THAT CARRIES 310 PEOPLE A DAY) of longer term plans of high speed rail and regional non-high speed rail serving more locations. The price tag might seem high now, but consider how much it will be 10 or 20 years down the road if we don't prepare appropriately now or, even worse, just watch as other cities in the region pass us by.

First, see bolded and underlined text I inserted above.

• Why ins't it a fair way of looking at it? You have to look at ROI at some point or you end up in the budget situation the nation is currently facing. When there is no oversight on what really makes sense and what sounds good and excites people. I like the idea of high speed rail, I really do. However, I recognize that it will hemmorage money and Atlanta isn't in a corridor with the density and underlying mass transit system needed to support it.
• What high-speed route is coming in the near future?
• Will this 'high speed' rail be able to compete with air travel based on price, time, convenience? Say they knock it out of the park and the high speed rail cuts the DC trip down to 6 hours. Who is going to pay the high speed rail price to do that when you can get to DCA in 1.5 hours via plane? I won't.
• What is an acceptable return on this investment? Even a 300% increase in rail traffic only pusts 1,000 people a day through the building.

$39 million dumped into a project that hopes that one day they can increase the number of boardings from 310 a day while hoping a high speed rail system comes to Atlanta. Losing idea.

[testa50]

Originally Posted by waronxmas

I have the same fear too, but if this is made into an issue of building for the future of all Georgians then I think it will have a chance. It will take something this State does poorly unfortunately:

-Rural, Suburban and Urban leaders all coming together in unison to urge their constituents to pass the bill.

-Democratic and Republican office holders coming together to do the same thing.

-A clearly defined, easy to consume, version of the plan along with the benefits it will provide to bring to voters.

It's a pipe dream, but sometimes I am an optimist.

If you were to design the exact plan for voters (balancing chance of passing with benefit to the city), what percentage of the ~$8 billion would you allocate to public transit vs roads? I'm thinking at least 75% to roads.

It would be great if we could have some sort of unifying vision for some of the money: something like a budget of $1 million for stoplight timing and establishment, roadway upgrades, and turn lane improvements for every single surface street-to-interstate interchange in the entire metro region.

I think people are going to be worried that their money won't get spent in a way that actually benefits them. Often, the nagging problems that annoy people in their commute aren't big-picture things like freeway congestion, but little things like a poorly-timed stoplight or a right turn lane that needs to be extended.

Oh, and make 316 limited access thru SR 20 ffs.

[K-SawDude]

Originally Posted by gtcorndog

$39 million dumped into a project that hopes that one day they can increase the number of boardings from 310 a day while hoping a high speed rail system comes to Atlanta. Losing idea.

My understanding from reading about this proposal is that most of the financial benefit of the proposed move is based on removing the "bottlenecking" currently happening at the current Brookwood Amtrak station. That is, freight in addition to passenger rail can have an up to six hour reduction in travel times if they can move Amtrak to a different location. So I'm not sure it's accurate to assume the major revenue benefits are from additional passenger boarding alone.

Sure, that patch behind the IKEA at Atlantic Station isn't big, but it's certainly bigger than the current location. If they could integrate that station well into the AS retail/restaurant options, it's not a bad idea.

[arjay57]

Originally Posted by K-SawDude

My understanding from reading about this proposal is that most of the financial benefit of the proposed move is based on removing the "bottlenecking" currently happening at the current Brookwood Amtrak station. That is, freight in addition to passenger rail can have an up to six hour reduction in travel times if they can move Amtrak to a different location. So I'm not sure it's accurate to assume the major revenue benefits are from additional passenger boarding alone.

Sure, that patch behind the IKEA at Atlantic Station isn't big, but it's certainly bigger than the current location. If they could integrate that station well into the AS retail/restaurant options, it's not a bad idea.

The Loaf say our proposed Amtrak station didn't make the cut.

Proposed Amtrak station near Atlantic Station fails to get federal funding | Atlanta News & Opinion Blog | Fresh Loaf | Creative Loafing Atlanta

[K-SawDude]

Originally Posted by arjay57

The Loaf say our proposed Amtrak station didn't make the cut.

Proposed Amtrak station near Atlantic Station fails to get federal funding | Atlanta News & Opinion Blog | Fresh Loaf | Creative Loafing Atlanta

Boo! It's a little crummy they felt the need to give even more federal money to CA and the Northeast. I realize those states tend to pay in more tax money than Southern states, but why not spread the love?

(I'm wondering if our application was sorta . . . crappy and thrown together at the last minute. Hmmm . . . .)

[qjbusmaster]

Originally Posted by K-SawDude

Boo! It's a little crummy they felt the need to give even more federal money to CA and the Northeast. I realize those states tend to pay in more tax money than Southern states, but why not spread the love?

(I'm wondering if our application was sorta . . . crappy and thrown together at the last minute. Hmmm . . . .)

What is needed is coast to coast HSR from east to west via atlanta and one via new orleans the long distance trains are in dire need of speed enhancement seriously they suck now

[arjay57]

Originally Posted by K-SawDude

Boo! It's a little crummy they felt the need to give even more federal money to CA and the Northeast. I realize those states tend to pay in more tax money than Southern states, but why not spread the love?

I would have guessed that southern states like Georgia, Florida and Texas pay in a lot more in taxes than most northeastern states.

[gtcorndog]

Originally Posted by qjbusmaster

What is needed is coast to coast HSR from east to west via atlanta and one via new orleans the long distance trains are in dire need of speed enhancement seriously they suck now

Why is it needed? To double the number of people boarding in Atlanta from 400 to 800?

HSR is very wasteful and inefficient for long haul trips. It is most efficient in 2-3 hour trips. If I'm going Dallas, I don't want a 6-7 hour train ride (@150-200 mph). I can get there in 2 hours via plane... for cheaper.