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A lot of people try to make Atlanta something it isn't.
Truth be told, the city has a lot more in common with LA than it does Portland. My guess is we will become more like the above description than like a New York or Portland. It's just the way the city was built and is led.
I strongly agree, but isn't there SOMETHING Atlanta can do to stop it? Is it really TOO LATE to take a page from Portland and try to stop the sprawl before Atlanta becomes another LA?
(Not that I have any problem with LA, because I LOVE LA. What LA is works for LA. But I don't think it will work for Atlanta in the long run when business start to leave in boat loads because the city got out of hand. I don't think Atlanta can survive that).
Could Georgia draw up an urban growth limit and make it law, forcing all future development to happen inside of the boundaries, make Atlanta a more urban core, which would also force more people to move inside the growth boundary, making their commutes shorter and making it easier to have new transit options that will have ridership.????
Could Georgia draw up an urban growth limit and make it law, forcing all future development to happen inside of the boundaries, make Atlanta a more urban core, which would also force more people to move inside the growth boundary, making their commutes shorter and making it easier to have new transit options that will have ridership.????
I don't understand how these kinds of laws work, but I don't like the sound of it. It sounds completely unconstitutional for a state to tell people where they can and can not build things, that is a local issue. Sure, it might help with sprawl, but it comes at the expense of granting the state power that it shouldn't have. Besides, the state of Georgia would never care enough about Atlanta to make a law like this anyway. It would anger too many people, and by the sounds of it, it kind of should.
The reason I say race is an idiotic thing to blame the lack of public transit on is because I rarely hear people talk about the real issues of transit. How will it be paid for? How will it be managed? Who gets to decide who manages it? How do we change it if we don't like how it's done? There are a TON of legitimate concerns with a project as big as rail. Instead of addressing them, proponents seem to rely on the argument that anybody who doesn't want it is "racist." Why? Because that instantly gives them the moral high ground and insinuates that rail is so perfect, the only way anybody could possibly be against it is because they are racist. Well, that's just not true. I have heard some actual compelling arguments against rail transit. I think the discussion would go a lot better if these points could be addressed rather than accusing anybody who brings them up of being a racist.
You brought up another really good point. The leadership of Atlanta is, and has been for a long time, completely awful. The problem is, it's pretty much almost 100% black. Therefore, it's difficult to criticize any of it without being accused of being a racist. This has helped give rise to the suburbs because many intelligent people have decided that rather than sit around being accused of being racist, they are just going to move to outlying and better run cities. If the city of Atlanta would open itself up to criticism and correction instead of relying on accusing any naysayers of being racist, it would probably do wonders for transforming the city.
I am hoping that as more non-blacks move into the city of Atlanta, the city government will start to reflect the demographics of the city. Once the government has a little diversity to it, it will be much easier for citizens to become active and demand change without fear of being labelled racist for not going along with everything the leadership says.
Calling anybody who doesn't agree with you a racist may be easy and help you win arguments and shut the other side up, but at the end of the day, this argument causes much more harm to the person who uses it than to the person it is being used against.
Could Georgia draw up an urban growth limit and make it law, forcing all future development to happen inside of the boundaries, make Atlanta a more urban core, which would also force more people to move inside the growth boundary, making their commutes shorter and making it easier to have new transit options that will have ridership.????
I just can't see anything like that passing here. Our Republican-controlled state limiting growth (which most people would just probably see as limiting jobs)? I highly doubt that.
And about the Transportation Investment Act. It's not perfect, and there are a lot of things that need to be done before we can even claim that we've improved anything.
But you know what? It's a plan. It's a step in the right direction, and it's a small sign of hope that, even being as fractured and regional as we are, we CAN work together. This summer, I was in a workshop at the Atlanta Regional Commission, and one of the themes of the entire session was getting us (and by us, I mean non-voting age teenagers) to realize all of the different interests at stake and just how different everyone was. It's like you're asking a bunch of kids who have never worked together before to suddenly work on a project. We're all going to have to learn what it means to be a region, how to build as one and how to progress as one in order to make a sustainable city in the twenty-first century. It's not going to be easy, but if we can set an example for the future, we can prepare for it as well.
And yeah, only a few transit projects are on the list, but half the money allotted for the TIA is for transit, for example:
$37 Million for Marta North Line Extension to GA140/Holcomb Bridge Road - Planning, Engineering, and Right-of-Way Acquisition
$128 Million for GRTA Xpress Operations and Capital Expansion (a bit much IMHO)
$600 Million Dollars for the North Avenue Streetcar Line and for the Southwest Quadrant of the Beltline PLUS MARTA Green Line Station at Washington Park - All Phases Plus 10 Years of Operations Capital
$50 Million for Marta "Q" BRT between Piedmont Hospitial and the MARTA Lindbergh Center Station
$20 Million for Planning and Engineering Atlanta Commuter Rail Line from Atlanta to Griffin (and if a similar tax passes in Macon, from Griffin to Macon as well - Shame it isn't more money)
$100 Million for restoring Clayton County Bus Service in some shape and/or form.
$695 Million for Transit Along Cobb Corridor, either BRT from MARTA Arts Center Station to Kennesaw State University OR if additional funding from local, state, or federal is received, Rail service from MARTA Arts Center to Cumberland/Galleria District (most likely Light Rail). Alternative Analysis study underway.
$95 Million for Transit Study and Engineering along I-85 Corridor
$40 Million for Operations and Expansion for Gwinnett County bus service
$670 Million for MARTA Improvements, from Train Control and Electrical Upgrades to Lighting and Station Rehabilitation to Elevator and Escalator replacement - notably, $7 million to completely renovate the Airport Station and $354 Million to upgrade electrical power equipment.
$225 Million for Planning, Enginnering, and Right-of-Way Acqusition for the MARTA East Line (or MARTA Southeast Line or I-20 BRT/LRT). Future funding would result in definite rail build.
and finally...
$700 Million for the Planning, Engineering, and Construction of the Clifton Corridor Line.
All in all, transit takes home a good amount of money, and the funding is there for many, many good things to happen in the future. Our transit paradise certainly will not be built in a day, and because we live in such a road-dependent city, it's going to be harder for us than for others to accept transit more readily, but it will come.
I don't understand how these kinds of laws work, but I don't like the sound of it. It sounds completely unconstitutional for a state to tell people where they can and can not build things, that is a local issue. Sure, it might help with sprawl, but it comes at the expense of granting the state power that it shouldn't have. Besides, the state of Georgia would never care enough about Atlanta to make a law like this anyway. It would anger too many people, and by the sounds of it, it kind of should.
The reason I say race is an idiotic thing to blame the lack of public transit on is because I rarely hear people talk about the real issues of transit. How will it be paid for? How will it be managed? Who gets to decide who manages it? How do we change it if we don't like how it's done? There are a TON of legitimate concerns with a project as big as rail. Instead of addressing them, proponents seem to rely on the argument that anybody who doesn't want it is "racist." Why? Because that instantly gives them the moral high ground and insinuates that rail is so perfect, the only way anybody could possibly be against it is because they are racist. Well, that's just not true. I have heard some actual compelling arguments against rail transit. I think the discussion would go a lot better if these points could be addressed rather than accusing anybody who brings them up of being a racist.
You brought up another really good point. The leadership of Atlanta is, and has been for a long time, completely awful. The problem is, it's pretty much almost 100% black. Therefore, it's difficult to criticize any of it without being accused of being a racist. This has helped give rise to the suburbs because many intelligent people have decided that rather than sit around being accused of being racist, they are just going to move to outlying and better run cities. If the city of Atlanta would open itself up to criticism and correction instead of relying on accusing any naysayers of being racist, it would probably do wonders for transforming the city.
I am hoping that as more non-blacks move into the city of Atlanta, the city government will start to reflect the demographics of the city. Once the government has a little diversity to it, it will be much easier for citizens to become active and demand change without fear of being labelled racist for not going along with everything the leadership says.
Calling anybody who doesn't agree with you a racist may be easy and help you win arguments and shut the other side up, but at the end of the day, this argument causes much more harm to the person who uses it than to the person it is being used against.
And payment remains the perpetual question, and the probable reality is that it's going to take some kind of local/state funding in order to support a successful transit infrastructure. Just like all the road projects on the list will have to be supported by gas taxes and whatever extra local, state and federal funding.
On a side note, The idea of having transit that pays for itself has the great possibility of making it unattractive to the people who could use it and out of reach for those who need it. Our roads don't pay for themselves, why should our transit have to?
Last edited by HayateWind; 01-03-2012 at 12:46 PM..
I for one am happy with the transit list. It has the right mix of road and transit projects to satisfy the transit-dependent commuter and suburban commuter. I will admit I wish more transit made the list and the rail lines to Lithonia and Cobb where fully funded, but I think the Clifton Corridor and BeltLine are great projects that deserve money. Several interstate interchanges will be improved and help with the suburban commute. A permanent solution is to force Cobb and Gwinnett to pass the MARTA tax and start expanding the transit service. I think Clayton approved it in 2010 or 2010?, but MARTA needs to be a regional agency and yes it does need to be held to higher accountability.
Why does new track and a station up to Holcomb Bridge only cost $37 million, but extending service to Cobb Galleria is almost $700 million? And that's not even extending the heavy rail.
I don't get it.
I have to agree that this plan is pretty awful. It doesn't even go up into Alpharetta or past Doraville.
Why does new track and a station up to Holcomb Bridge only cost $37 million, but extending service to Cobb Galleria is almost $700 million? And that's not even extending the heavy rail.
I don't get it.
I have to agree that this plan is pretty awful. It doesn't even go up into Alpharetta or past Doraville.
Planning, engineering and right of way acquisition. Doesn't pay for construction.
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